Hello, can anyone help me with some load data? I'm unable to find any info on
335 Grain Truncated Cone lubed no gas check
440 Grain Round Flat Nose lubed no gas check, I do see data for 440gr hard cast with 40.4 grn of H110. Hard cast bullets are without gas check? I'm clueless.
I have the following powder available: Unique, WC296, IMR 4227, WC680, Bullseye
Last edited by SoCalLove; 08-06-2011 at 06:19 PM.
(edit) Who made the bullets? HOW LONG ARE THE SHANKS? Gas checks don't affect load data. Shank length does. Forget Bullseye or Unique for ANY .500 loads. Get them off your loading bench if you don't load for other calibers. Load 680 to base of bullet with these slugs.Originally Posted by SoCalLove
Last edited by waksupi; 08-07-2011 at 12:43 AM. Reason: Unacceptable language.
JR--the .500 specialist
John,
Bullets were purchased from the link below
I went ahead and bought 1lb of LilGun to try a few loads, please let me know if these loads are adequate, if you feel any loads are not safe I will pull them. Thanks for your time.
All bullets were purchased from
http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.ph...roducts_id=256
all load data came from Handloads.com
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...=Powder&Source
440gr lubed no Gas check: 34.6gr Lil Gun 1528fps
440gr lubed no Gas check: 40.2gr Lil Gun 1707fps Max load
460gr lubed gas check: 30gr WC 296 1350 fps
460gr lubed gas check: 30.4gr WC 296 - Test Round ****
575gr lubed gas check: 33.5gr LilGun 1442 fps
600gr lubed gas check: 31gr lilgun 1414 fps
700gr lubed & Gas Check: 25.4gr WC 296 - Testing this load, please advise ***
700gr lubed & Gas Check: 25.0gr WC 296 1027 fps
All your loads look safe but you're nearing the limit on a couple of them. You might get sticky extraction with some types of brass. I'm talking about the second to last load. Use 680 with the 700 gr. if you want top vel, and stop at 34 grains unless you have a chronograph. LilGun burns HOT and I'd expect leading with the plain base bullets in the second load listed above.
You can use existing data for your new 440 gr. bullets. For the 335, what are you trying to accomplish? Max vel? You'll probably get leading. A pleasant load to shoot? Use 440 grain bullet data and see if you like the results. If too boring, up the charge some. You'll be safe using 350 grain jacketed data with the 335 cast. Don't ever use cast data with jacketed.
Sorry I was testy. Had a private shoot scheduled yesterday, drove 3 hours with my MGs and 10,000 rounds of ammo and the twelve people who were supposed to be there never showed, and never called. Next time I'll get a (non-refundable) deposit up front. Live and learn...
So I'll try to be civil here.
What are you wanting to accomplish with your handloading of the .500?
Do you just want to try a bunch of different bullet weights, and want safe loads?
Do you want to find one load you really like?
Do you want to have different loads for different friends with different recoil tolerances?
Do you want absolute top velocity with every weight bullet?
Do you want to duplicate factory ammo at low cost?
Do you just want to play around with no real goal in mind, other than not damaging your gun or yourself? Believe me, there's nothing wrong with that.
Give me a little direction here. MANY of your questions are ones that you could have found the answers to with a little research. And by research I mean reading things that are already out there.
JR--the .500 specialist
After my last post I was reminded of something. There are certain things that every handloader should know, but many (especially beginners) don't. I say every handloader SHOULD know these things because they are all things that one should be able to figure out by deductive reasoning, but many people aren't good at that.
Here then, in no particular order, are some basic truths of handloading that mainly involve safety. I am focused here on loading for magnum revolvers, but much of what follows is applicable to other types of loading. I'll leave out all the stuff that deals with accuracy, leading, and other non-safety issues.
1. For anything other than squib loads, you should seat and crimp in two separate steps. If you can't see why this is so, stop loading ammunition. This isn't a safety issue per se, but if you don't understand why you should seat and crimp separately, you lack the mental capacity to grasp much more important safety issues. I am deadly serious here.
2. All other things being equal, cast bullets give lower pressure than jacketed ones. You can safely use jacketed data for cast in the same bullet weight and same seating depth, but not the reverse.
3. All things being equal EXCEPT bullet WEIGHT, you can safely use data developed for one bullet weight with a similar bullet of LESS weight, i.e. use 440 grain bullet data for a 385 grain bullet.
4. All things being equal EXCEPT powder TYPE, you can safely use the same weight of a SLOWER powder in your load. Example: 24 grains of WC680 in place of 24 grains of 296 with a 250 Keith bullet in .44 Magnum. Get a powder burn rate chart. Get several. They don't all agree. Be cautious where they don't. Note: Don't apply this rule with powders of radically different burning rates. Don't load ten grains of 296 instead of ten grains of Unique in a .44 Magnum. You'll almost certainly stick a bullet in the barrel. And then when you pull the trigger again...
5. Shank length (seating depth) can have a HUGE effect on pressure, especially in straight-walled cases, as it greatly affects net case capacity. This cannot be stated too strongly. More shank in the case means more pressure for ANY given load. All other things being equal, you can safely load a bullet with a SHORTER shank using existing data. You CAN'T safely do this with a bullet with a LONGER shank.
6. Non-canister powders are non-standard. They can have different burning rates depending on lot number. Make sure of what you've got before you use someone else's load data.
7. Don't use any powder that is fast enough that it fills less than 60% of the case with the load you want. You want an accidental double charge to overflow the case, so no matter how dumb you are, you won't seat a bullet on a load that would blow your gun up.
Feel free to make this a sticky and/or add to it.
Last edited by John Ross; 08-07-2011 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Add detail
JR--the .500 specialist
Hi John,
Sorry to hear about your meet up, that must be quite frustrating!
I tried searching for more information before I started loading, I was able to find some feint but helpful information that allowed me to move forward. Of course you made it very clear here what to do and what not, and thanks for that.
What are you wanting to accomplish with your handloading of the .500?
- I have 3 objectives with this gun: first is to load, play with and horde a bunch of variety of ammo for later use.
- Second is to find a load I really like shooting capable of 300-400 yard range.
- Third is to find and load something that I can use to stop a large charging animal when backpacking, camping, fishing.
Do you just want to try a bunch of different bullet weights, and want safe loads?
- Yes, I'm currently in this mode, trying different things to test them out and be safe at the same time without leading or blowing off my hands or gun.
Do you want to find one load you really like?
- Yes, eventually I want to find something that I really like shooting that is accurate and capable to going 300-400 yards. Why that distance? I have no idea just a goal i set. I have a feeling I will be using 460 gr for this. Please recommend something for this purpose.
Do you want to have different loads for different friends with different recoil tolerances?
- Not too concerned about this one, although it would be nice, I can achieve this one by loading bare minimums. But I've changed my mind about letting inexperienced friends shooting my guns.
Do you want absolute top velocity with every weight bullet?
- I'm new to reloading and I do not know enough, but I would like to try it out.
Do you want to duplicate factory ammo at low cost?
- I haven't shot enough factory ammo to say, I've tried Magtech 400gr and Winchester 400gr JHP.
Do you just want to play around with no real goal in mind, other than not damaging your gun or yourself? Believe me, there's nothing wrong with that.
- I'm currently trying to play with different weights at different loads to find what I like shooting with that bullet weight, I realize that's a bit of work to try 2-3 different loads with one bullet. In this process I want to find the load I like to plink with comfortably.
- However I plan on loading and hording 100 max loads of each bullet size and 200 rounds of comfortable loads of each size so that I will always have different size ammo ready to go to the range.
- Then there's the "ohh ****" ammo. I do a lot of backpacking, fly fishing in Sequoia and Yosemite, Big Bear and Tahoe and there are bears running around. What would you recommend for absolute knock down power with enough penetration that can stop a large charging animal in its tracks? My friends and I had encounters with bears very close to our hiking trails about 30 yards out, it was hanging out picking on some berries so we just quietly walked off. Had two encounters where they were coming into our camp sites at night, luckily all the food was hung up on trees and trash was disposed and no food in the tents so Yogi left quietly.
Last edited by SoCalLove; 08-07-2011 at 01:48 PM.
My answer to this may surprise you.
I'd take a 450 to 500 grain flat point cast bullet loaded to AT MOST 1100 FPS, probably less. You want a round that isn't so violent in recoil that you can only fire one shot in an emergency. A load such as I have described will give you all the penetration you need (LOTS more than a 250 Keith at 1400 out of a .44), cut a big wound channel, and break bones along the way.
Don't be seduced by gee-whiz ballistics when you want to load defensive ammo. Can you dump at least three of the loads on target at close range in as many seconds? If not, you either need to practice more, or reduce the recoil, or both. I would also NOT have rubber grips on a defensive gun. You want your hand to slide into the correct position when you grab the gun in a hurry. You can't do that with rubber grips.
Good luck.
JR--the .500 specialist
Long range plinking is great fun and you can do this with almost any bullet, but you'll get best overall results in the .500 with lighter slugs with a "pointier" shape. Since you don't (yet) cast, buy cast bullets from Matt when the Long Range molds come in or buy the Remington 385 jacketed slugs and load them to long OAL. You'll find the sweet spot where trajectory is pretty flat (for a handgun) but recoil doesn't ruin precise aiming. It is very hard to shoot loads of top recoil well at long range.
Those are the "best" choices for long range shooting, but you can do it with almost any 500 bullet. As I always say, "It ain't the wand, it's the magician..."
So take the advice that the old Jewish guy (on the street in NYC) gave to the kid who asked him "Mister, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?"
Last edited by John Ross; 08-07-2011 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Grammar
JR--the .500 specialist
This is difficult to do safely without pressure equipment, and I would say impossible without a GOOD chronograph, when you're doing your own load development. Restrict your top loads to ones developed by those with access to these things.
JR--the .500 specialist
John, even though a lot of this data is out there already I know many of us appreciate all of the time and effort you put into these posts.
I for one have copied and pasted virtually everything you have written on the 500 and its various loads.
Thank you very much Sir.
Thanks for your time and advise John, I will go ahead and remove the hot loads on the 440gr and try 37-38grs of lil gun. I will also make 10 loads of the 700gr 30-34 gr of 680.
A few grains less may still lead. Just shoot them up and scrub it out.
JR--the .500 specialist
Where can I purchase wooden grips for the X-frame smith.
I want to ditch rubber factory grips on my 6.5" gun.
Thanks in advance.
Pauli
[edit] Okay...
Any K or L frame grip will fit. What do I like? Do a Google for Jim Badger Custom Grips. You want the round-to-square butt conversion grips for K/L/X frame. Those are my favorites. $70 unless the price has gone up. The rosewood laminate ones I like best are shown in my avatar.
Last edited by waksupi; 08-08-2011 at 05:40 PM. Reason: last chance
JR--the .500 specialist
Thank you Mr Ross....
I've been lusting after these, but they are like $250 on special order from europe. They also cover the backstrap.
Click on image for hi res version.
OR
Click on image for hi res version.
I have not been here in a longgg time but is it too late to order?
Bob J is selling his. Two rounds through it, $1325 shipped.
Yep, PM me if interested and we can set it up....
Update:
John contacted me and indicated that he would still honor the return of this gun so would consider it SPF. Will hold the gun for two weeks or so to give payment a chance to arrive.... If at that point the return falls through will contact those interested in acquiring one of these great guns and we can set something up.....
Last edited by Bob J; 08-10-2011 at 10:25 AM.
If you have a BLACK one left i'll take it. Sent you a PM.
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