John Ross/PC .500 Magnum Group Buy (Gun, not mold)

[John Ross]

At the request of some forum members, I am starting a Group Buy of the 5", half-lug, no comp, tight gap, fast twist .500 S&W Magnum I designed and that is built by the Performance Center with a lifetime warranty.

This gun can shoot 400 grain bullets of my design at over 2000 FPS, and will stabilize 725 grain bullets as low as 800 FPS. Scoped and off sandbags, many users are reporting 2"-3" groups at 100 yards. Kent Lomont put 50 out of 50 of my design 450 grain bullets on an oil drum at 700 yards in front of witnesses.

Retail price is $1710, normal dealer price is $1395+$30 shipping. The Group Buy price for forum members will be $1350 Postpaid if I can get orders for ten guns. These are available in both satin stainless and black with a satin stainless cylinder.






Serial number prefix for the black guns is JRA, for the satin guns it's JRC. If you want a matched pair with the same serial number, such as JRA0094 and JRC0094, let me know. 250 guns were made in each finish, Low serial number guns are all gone.

1. Captain awesome -- Satin
2. Paulinski -- Satin
3. Don Purcell -- Black
4. Shawnsmc -- Satin
5. Spartacus -- Either
6. Bob J -- Satin
7. HiggityHank -- Satin
8. Wilddog 45 -- Satin
9. wcmachine -- Black
10. Don Purcell -- Satin matching # to 3. above
11. colt saa -- Satin
12. Manomet -- Satin
13. SoCalLove -- Satin
14. Gunslinger1911 -- Satin
15. Low PE -- Satin
16. 5.7 Man -- Black
17. Bushwaker -- Satin
18. Alan --Satin
19. Blake Stephenson -- Satin

A long article about the development of this gun is at

http://john-ross.net/pdfs/maghist.pdf

[bearcove]

I'm interested but need to find the funds.

Those look good, never liked the ones with the brake.

[shawnsmc]

I might be interested if it is legal in California. Do you know if it is on the California Roster of Handguns certified for sale?

Thanks,
Shawn

[bearcove]

Is serial # JRA0113 taken yet?

[frankenfab]

Can I get mine with an unfluted cylinder and a loading gate?

For right now, it is out of the question. But I will keep an eye on this thread, and if it drags out long enough, maybe I can get one.

Loved your book, John! Glad to see you here, and thanks for offering this buy.

[John Ross]

I might be interested if it is legal in California. Do you know if it is on the California Roster of Handguns certified for sale?

Thanks,
Shawn

It was California approved originally, but that may need to be renewed.

[shawnsmc]

OK I found it on the california doj website and it expires on the 17th of next month. So if it gets renewed you can put me down for one. Or if we could get ten orders in very soon .

Thanks,
Shawn

[captain awesome]

count me in, I am thrilled at the opportunity. Also thanks for writing Unintended Consequences. To date I have not enjoyed any other book so much in my life.

[wilddog45]

PM sent

[Paulinski]

PM Sent as well.

[Paulinski]

Re-sent the PM.

[Paulinski]

Satin Please....

Thank you

[captain awesome]

Is it possible to get a larger more in focus high res picture of the black one? right now I am leaning towards the satin.

[bigboredad]

It s for this reason I need to stay way from the group buy section. That is a excellent price for a gun like that and the faster twist makes it so much more useful. I really hate being poor.

[wilddog45]

PM resent

[nanuk]

Wow... 400gr at 2000fps.... AWESOME! too bad we can't hunt moose up here with a handgun....

although, there is a nuance in the law that specifically says if the gun was Designed to shoot with ONE HAND, it is a handgun. IF it was designed to SHOOT with BOTH hands, it is NOT a Handgun....

interesting.....

[Spartacus]

Are you set up to take credit cards John?

Whatever finish you have the most of will be fine by me.

I am sooo stoked. Thanks you very much for doing this...

[John Ross]

Is it possible to get a larger more in focus high res picture of the black one? right now I am leaning towards the satin.

I'll try to take one soon.

[John Ross]

Are you set up to take credit cards John?

I'm not, but my publisher is. I'll talk to him.

[Spartacus]

Here are some excerpts from:

The Development of the Powerful Big-Bore Revolver in General and the .500 S&W Magnum in Particular
And
The Development of the
John Ross/Performance Center 5” .500 S&W Magnum by John Ross


"Here, then, are the relevant design features of the John Ross/Performance Center 5” .500 S&W Magnum that set it apart from other guns in this caliber, and make it what I believe is the best working revolver currently available at any price.


Barrel length and shroud contour
For all firearms, there is a “sweet spot” for the balance point (the gun’s center of gravity, for you physics majors) that makes the gun feel better in the hands than if the balance point were either farther forward or farther back. For my money, the people who have always understood this best are the English makers of double shotguns and double rifles. My Rodda 4-bore double rifle (built in 1882) weighs 24 pounds and is livelier feeling than you would ever think were possible for a 24 pound shoulder weapon.
In my hands, the .500 feels better with a half-lug 5” barrel than with any other length or contour. Happily, a five inch barrel is long enough to wring out almost all the ballistic performance that the .500 cartridge has to offer, and short enough to not get in the way of things when carried in a good belt holster. A five inch barrel gives a long enough sight radius for good long range shooting, yet it is short enough that you don’t have to hold up as much front sight for the really long shots, as with the 8 3/8” guns. This barrel length with half-lug shroud gives a gun weight of 57 ounces. This is a tolerable heft for a holster gun, and only one ounce more than the production 4” .500 with the blast-inducing compensator, wider cylinder gap, and only 3 1/8” actual barrel length.

The 1:10” twist rate will stabilize long, heavy bullets at long range and/or moderate velocities, while 1:18¾” twists fall short in this area. The faster twist hurts very little if at all on lighter bullets, so you have the ability to shoot 300 grain Hornady polymer-tipped spitzer bullets at 2100 FPS, 725 grain cast flatpoints at 800 FPS, or anything in between, and the gun will shoot them all well. No other repeating handgun enjoys this wide a range of usable bullet weights and velocities.

Barrel attachment method
The realities of S&W’s production facility dictate that if you want a tight (.0035”-.0045”) cylinder gap on every gun in a run of five hundred units, you are going to have to use a three-piece barrel assembly with a barrel, barrel shroud, and a muzzle nut. I originally wanted an internal muzzle nut like the one used on the 5” 327 Miculek model .357 Magnum (and all Dan Wessons), but there is not enough room to do this on a gun with a half-inch bore. The internal nut has to be so thin that the engagement lugs on the tool you use to tighten it break off before you can get enough torque. Dick Mochak experimented with a number of possible alternatives, and an external muzzle nut with eight flats on the front quarter-inch of its length was far and away the most robust design. Like Keith, I want what works best, and this is it. The look grows on you.


Front sight
I originally wanted S&W’s excellent quick-interchangeable front sight (standard on 8 3/8” production guns), so that the shooter could change front sight heights for loads that shoot to widely different elevations. Dick built a prototype 5” gun this way, but the greater muzzle flip of the lighter, shorter barrel caused the locating notches of the insert to quickly become battered and unserviceable. The Millet dovetail sight is the most robust design available. A gunsmith can fit a sight of appropriate height for any load, and it will stay put. It is not possible to make a quick-change sight for a .500 with a barrel shorter than 8” and have it work long term. If you have multiple favorite loads, do what I do and have multiple guns. I am hoping to get some front sights made with Keith long range gold bars, which may help the situation of shooting different bullet weights with the same rear sight setting.

Finish
I had originally wanted my gun to have the black Melonite finish that S&W puts on some of its semiautos, both because of its attractive color and the fact that it is extremely hard. Unfortunately, Melonite is not suitable for a revolver cylinder that sees 60,000 PSI on a daily basis, and the order in which S&W performs the machining operations on the .500 frame prevent Melonite from being a possibility there, as well. I think the two choices we ended up with are almost as good as what I originally wanted. The satin stainless finish is classier (and more appropriate for a working gun) than the shiny production finish, and the black oxide with satin cylinder version of the gun is sexy as hell.

Trigger
The DA trigger pull on all X-Frame guns will always be heavier than that of other S&W models because the cylinder itself has much more mass than a typical 6-shot .44 Magnum N-Frame or 7-shot .357 L-Frame. It takes more finger effort on the trigger to index the heavy cylinder on double action--you can’t get around basic physics. I had the Performance Center give me the best DA pull that they could put on the gun. The SA pull could be lighter, but they will not put as light a single action pull on a .500 as they will on smaller calibers because this is one gun you really don’t want going off before you have it in a firm grip."