Pointed Cast Bullets?

[northmn]

I have a Lee mold that throws a nice 155 gr pointed bullet and have been wondering about their use as pointed bullets seem to work with jackets at even below 2000 fps. Some have used 30-30's with a pointed bullet in the chamber to shoot at longer ranges. I have read some using the 45-70 with the heavy pointed bullets with poorer results, but they were used at maybe 1200 fps muzzle velocity. If spitzer can work at lower velocities why couldn't these. Have to test them I guess, I do use water hardened bullets with annealed noses. Maybe that would work?

DP

[onondaga]

Pointed cast bullets do not expand as well as flat nosed cast bullets of the same alloy, weight and caliber. I personally had poor results with pointed bullets in a .308 Win rifle. A 1/2 inch high above the heart shot and a buck went off 200 yards and had to be shot again.

I believe a flat nose bullet shot the same spot would have had much more expansion and a greater shock wave to the tissue that would have instantly stopped the heart. I only hunt with flat nose bullets now and it has made a difference. My alloy is BHN 14 at 7 days after casting and expansion is 100% on deer broadside shots with large exit wounds and bleeding. Pointed bullets tend to give only a piercing wound that fat closes up and allows very little bleading.

Gary

[legend]

I will try this....

i think that a pointed cast boolit would be more likely to upset slowly.having said that i also believe that a flat pointed boolit will upset faster at same speed.

now the reverse would be true if the pointed boolit was soft,and the flat point was hard,again at the same speed.

Hard body and soft nose might be just the ticket if you have concerns about having the boolit just punch through like a pencil and not mushroom.

perhaps a flat left on the nose by an incorrect fitting nose punch would work as well.......try shooting both into wet phone books and compare what you see to what your looking for it to do.

You did not mention what you plan to shoot or how far,and i probably can't help you much there as i shoot so far i usually add salt to the boolits......to keep the meat good untill i get over there....ok i'm sorry i said that.

I think i made sense,and i hope it helps you.

[NHlever]

Pointed cast bullets do not expand as well as flat nosed cast bullets of the same alloy, weight and caliber. I personally had poor results with pointed bullets in a .308 Win rifle. A 1/2 inch high above the heart shot and a buck went off 200 yards and had to be shot again.

I believe a flat nose bullet shot the same spot would have had much more expansion and a greater shock wave to the tissue that would have instantly stopped the heart. I only hunt with flat nose bullets now and it has made a difference. My alloy is BHN 14 at 7 days after casting and expansion is 100% on deer broadside shots with large exit wounds and bleeding. Pointed bullets tend to give only a piercing wound that fat closes up and allows very little bleading.

Gary

+1 on everything Gary said here. I am even cautious about round nose boolits at handgun velocities whether fired from a handgun, or rifle. Those shapes just don't impart much shock at all.

[truckjohn]

Pointy bullets main importance was historically in machine guns - where they needed the extra range... Even today in the military - you see the highest BC bullets used in machine gun applications.... They went from there to long range competition shooting - where the 200 extra yards could be the difference between hitting a target and being in the ground....

Their disadvantage was killing.. They either gotta expand a bunch or tumble to really kill well.... If they don't - well, you better be on your game and make your shot count.....

When you are talking about hunting under 300 or so yards.. look into flat point or round nose designs.... The LFN is well renowned for it's killing ability.... as are a number of the Lyman designs like the 311041....

Thanks

[Doc Highwall]

Part of the trouble with pointed bullets is they need a harder alloy to keep the nose from slumping. For most hunting conditions the hardest alloy would be air cooled wheel weights or softer such as 30:1 to 40:1 alloy and with a flat point bullet such as Lyman's 311041 or ones by RCBS or Ranch Dogs would perform well. Think of the flat point as a pre expanded spitzer.

[KCSO]

I use that bullet a lot in my 303 and I consider it small agme and target only. Even out of straight w/w at 1900 fps I get minimal expansion in water jugs.

[jhalcott]

I've tried the "soft" nose (2 alloy) bullets on game. They DO work quite well. I have trouble making the .30 caliber ones though. I have a pointy 185 grain mold that works ok. My .458 NEI pointy bullet "soft" nosed makes a DANDY hole thru deer. It reacts a lot like the hornady HP but weighs about 420 grains. I can get nearly 2050 fps with it in my Mauser rifle. Above that RECOIL gets too severe. In my Contender(15"), I can get about 1500 fps. I seldom try for that much speed and settle for 1-200 fps LESS.

[bprifle01]

I have an old Lyman/Ideal mold #311413 (169g spitzer pt) that I had been hoping to use for deer hunting. From what you guys are saying, I shouldn't plan on it. My dreams are dashed!
I'm still going to work up a load for this in my '06 just to prove to myself that it wont expand enough for deer. I also have a Lyman #311291 (RN). Would this boolit be a better choice for deer hunting?

[Doc Highwall]

Yes your 311291 will work better then the 311413.

[RugerFan]

I have an old Lyman/Ideal mold #311413 (169g spitzer pt) that I had been hoping to use for deer hunting. From what you guys are saying, I shouldn't plan on it. My dreams are dashed!
I'm still going to work up a load for this in my '06 just to prove to myself that it wont expand enough for deer. I also have a Lyman #311291 (RN). Would this boolit be a better choice for deer hunting?

Absolutely. The 311291 is an excellent deer killer.

[jhalcott]

BPRIFLE, do not give up on that "pointy" mold and deer hunting. The correct alloy and velocity (with a split nose) may expand it enough for your needs. You HAVE to test it first though! An ACCURATE bullet thru the heart is MUCH better than an errant shot thru the deers hams! I hunt in an area infested with game hogs! IF they see your deer drop and are closer than you , they WILL claim it. THAT is why I insist on instant or near instant drops with MY loads.

[Larry Gibson]

jhalcott

....... I can get nearly 2050 fps with it in my Mauser rifle. Above that RECOIL gets too severe.........

Now ain't thatthe truth

The Barnes Original 400 gr SP pushes 2300 fps and the Lee C457-500-FN pushes 2150 fps. Let's ya know you've pulled a trigger.

Larry Gibson

[northmn]

At whaat speed do most jacketed spitzers not expand? I have some jacketed sptzer "handgun bullets" made for single shots that must expand under 2000 fps. Sold the Encore before I used them.

DP

[jhalcott]

Northmn, Nosler CLAIMS some of their bullets will expand at speeds as low as 1700 fps on impact. I haven't tested enough of them to verify that claim. I DO know that some of Speers bullets can be a lot harder than others of the same weight and style.

[Al_sway]

I have an old Lyman/Ideal mold #311413 (169g spitzer pt) that I had been hoping to use for deer hunting. From what you guys are saying, I shouldn't plan on it. My dreams are dashed!
I'm still going to work up a load for this in my '06 just to prove to myself that it wont expand enough for deer. I also have a Lyman #311291 (RN). Would this boolit be a better choice for deer hunting?

I have the same 311413 mould, and I used it last year in my .30-30 single shot, with a muzzle velocity around 1800 fps. The alloy was a mixed concoction of whatever was left in the pot after wheelweights, range lead and a bit of tin solder. The bullet worked well on a deer at 75 yards: it ran in a little circle of about 10 yards and fell over. Shot through the heart and lungs. I would use it again.

[HollowPoint]

I pondered that same dilemma about pointy nose bullets for hunting purposes. I liked the extended range they gave me but hated the fact that they'd just zip right through the coyotes I was shooting at.

I ended up sending one of my Pointy Nose bullet molds to Eric over at the hollow-pointing-service website and had him drill me some thin hollow point pin holes in both cavities. I wasn't looking for large hollow points because it would have altered the pointy nose profile of my bullets. And it was those pointy noses that lead me to buy them in the first place. (lyman 311359)

I just wanted some thin pin-hole sized hollow points to make these bullets more conducive to expansion on impact. I can't say that they gave me better accuracy. In fact, accuracy with these bullets is about the same.

The down side is, I have yet to hit a coyote since having them hollow pointed. I have every reason to believe that they will now give me the expansion I was looking for. Depending on the degree of expansion, I may just send out my latest NOE group buy pointy-nose-bullet mold for hollow pointing. (it's a 200 grainer)

Everything all the other guys have stated is generally true but, if you're not looking for dramatic varmint-bullet expansion, there are ways to get around the pointy nose bullet dilemma.

HollowPoint

[GaryN]

Get a Forster case trimmer with their hollow point tool. When I get around to it I plan on using some Lyman #2 on a pointy bullet in my 270 with a hollow point. If that don't work I will mix up a load that is harder but with a 50/50 mix of tin to antimony to help with the brittleness of antimony.

[GaryN]

You might also want to test them with some milk jugs full of water with a stack of wet newspaper behind so you can see how it expanded before it hit the paper.

[HollowPoint]

I was never able to retrieve any of my pointy nose bullets for the reason listed above; they'd just pass right on through then go off into obscurity.

I'd venture to guess that unless they hit real hard bone of some type, they had no real kind of upset at the tip.

I think you're right; the water jug and newsprint test is the way to go if I want to see the effect of the hollow pointing. My problem is that I'd have to
drive about fifty miles one way to a safe shooting/testing sight, then pack my water jugs and news print another half-mile into the desert to conduct these
tests. Then pack it all out again.

The range-masters at the shooting range I frequent are good guys but, they can be kind of bitchy when it comes to testing like this. I'll have to ask them
the next time I'm there. It could be that my assumptions about them are completely wrong.

With my now hollow pointed bullets of the pointy nose persuasion, I too use an air cooled Lyman #2 equivalent alloy.

HollowPoint