Cold bore...clean barrel!

[RMulhern]

For those wondering about the title of this post...just a little word of advice! I KNOW my 200 yard zero for the conditions that I fired this group in. This is the 4th such group that I've tested KIK 2F powder within the past week and after each session I have made it a point to NOT MOVE the sight setting after each group was fired as the conditions (temp/RH) have been roughly the same; only the wind conditions have changed over the course of the 4 test groups being fired! This morning I had a fishtail wind somewhere around 8-12 mph gusting to 15-16 mph....such that I initially thought "this isn't a good day for testin" but when I started the wind wasn't too bad but got worse toward the middle of these 10 rounds fired. The first shot hit off the bull at the 1 o/clock position. Did I make a change in sight setting? NO! Even though the shot broke right down the middle I stuck with my KNOWN ZERO. The next 5 shots clustered from the top of the X ring upward to the top of the 10 ring at 12 o/clock...going into a group of 2.5" vertical to a horizontal size of 1.25". For the remaining 4 shots...well...that's when things got 'hairy' as the wind picked up and was switching from side to side such that it was impossible to break those shots under the same condition; consequently the group spread out as you see. The shot out of the 10 ring toward the 8 o/clock position I called. My diatribe...if you wish to call this post that is the fact that your first shots from a cold bore/clean barrel may go elsewhere other than intended with a good called shot but generally....IF YOUR ZERO IS KNOWN...for the conditions that the group will settle out toward center so it's NOT a good practice to go twisting on the sights after your sighter/sighters! This is the first week/time that I have used/worked with KIK powder and I have been interested in seeing how it would perform as it's quite a bit lower in price than the commonly used powder which I have been shooting. The previous groups fired have been with my Shiloh 45 2 7/8 and I have seen each grouping improve as adjustments were made. I started out with a load powder-wise of 110 grs. and worked downward; this 10 shot group fired with 96 grs. KIK 2F using a KAL cupped based PP mould dropping a bullet of 515 grs. weight. I used a FLP primer w/primer pocket wad, .250" BM lube cookie, Norma brass with the bullet seated .200" into the mouth of the case. I wiped with 2 damp patches of distilled water followed by 1 dry patch. The next group fired will be with the same identical loading under better conditions than existed this morning.

FWIW!!


KIF#4 by RMulhern, on Flickr

[ss40_70]

looks like pretty darn good shooting to me , if you dont mind me asking , why did you decide to try out the kik powder , im not bashfull about being a bit of a cheapskate myself , what with rising prices on both powder and lead i have been sorely tempted to try wheel weights for boolits and at $9.50 a lb i surely would love to try out the diamond back powder but i realy dont want to buy a full case just to try it

[RMulhern]

looks like pretty darn good shooting to me , if you dont mind me asking , why did you decide to try out the kik powder , im not bashfull about being a bit of a cheapskate myself , what with rising prices on both powder and lead i have been sorely tempted to try wheel weights for boolits and at $9.50 a lb i surely would love to try out the diamond back powder but i realy dont want to buy a full case just to try it

Basically because of the reduced price of this product! And the shooting may be good for at least 5 rounds however I 'called' one at the 8 o/clock position which I saw go! The others that did not cluster....were fired after the conditions got really rough however the POI of those are pretty good for elevation. Wheel weights will work well! Give them a go!

[ss40_70]

i feel a bit like a dummy now after rereading your post i now see where you did mention price , one more question though , how is the fouling ?

[RMulhern]

i feel a bit like a dummy now after rereading your post i now see where you did mention price , one more question though , how is the fouling ?

clean burn!!

[dave roelle]

Hi Rick:

Thats much nicer performance than i'm experiencing with KIK----------45 x 2.1 shiloh #1 ----shooting the grease groove money bullet at 520 grains----------short range (100 yds) is ok( ,about 2 minutes, and shoots the same basic group as both express (sadly discontinued) and swiss 1.5------------as distance moves fromm 100 to 200 the "pattern" is over 10 inches.

Tested from 68 to 74 grain loads------perhaps slowing things up a bit will help-------------next batch will be 65 to 68 grains.

The burn is pretty clean----------perhaps i just haven't found the correct compression yet----the local shop in houston is even stocking KIK so testing by the pound is pretty convenient

Thanks for the information

dave

[Don McDowell]

Dave, just for kicks and grins if your local shop has 1.5 KIK in stock, might give that a try. I'm thinking that the 2f is pretty hot, and needs to be treated more like we would treat 3f goex, loaded with little to no compression.
Maybe try with your 2f just enough that the bullet/wad are in "firm" contact with the powder.

[dave roelle]

Hi Don:

Perhaps next week i'll have some time to work up some test loads and try that----i"m guessing that will be in the mid 60's weight range.

I'll be by the local supplier in houston soon for primers and i'll dig into their black powder stock and see what shows up in KIK granulations.

They just started stocking black powder-----Goex, Swiss and KIK--------it does make testing handy--------------they are a new player in the houston area and are really a reloading supply's specialist----kind of refreshing

http://www.10ring.com/

Thanks for the thoughts

dave

[Don McDowell]

Dave yes probably 62-65 grs.
If you get a chance compare the KIK in kernel size to Goex. I'm thinking it's probably going to be like the rest of the European powders, will be smaller than the same F size claimed on a Goex can.

[dave roelle]

Gotcha Don-----------i have some goex 2f and so can use that to compair grain size

[RMulhern]

Hi Rick:

Thats much nicer performance than i'm experiencing with KIK----------45 x 2.1 shiloh #1 ----shooting the grease groove money bullet at 520 grains----------short range (100 yds) is ok( ,about 2 minutes, and shoots the same basic group as both express (sadly discontinued) and swiss 1.5------------as distance moves fromm 100 to 200 the "pattern" is over 10 inches.

Tested from 68 to 74 grain loads------perhaps slowing things up a bit will help-------------next batch will be 65 to 68 grains.

The burn is pretty clean----------perhaps i just haven't found the correct compression yet----the local shop in houston is even stocking KIK so testing by the pound is pretty convenient

Thanks for the information





dave

Dave

The compression I've been using with my load testing has been somewhere betwixt .060" to .080"....not much at all!

[dave roelle]

Thanks Rick------------------the next test will be drop tubed to just touch the bullet base and the come up a grain at a time and see where that leads.

Always fun to learn sumthin new

keep well and stay safe

dave

[kokomokid]

Dave, where exactly is this powder source near houston? Going there soon and might try some KIK.

[dave roelle]

Hi kokomokid:


the shop is www.10ring.com



Its on jones road just a bit west of Tomball

BKB Outdoors, Inc. 10ring.com
12779 Jones Rd. Ste. 103B
Houston, Texas 77070
Fax: 281-894-7923
info@10ring.com


drive safe

[bigted]

"CLEAN BORE .. CLEAN BARREL"

i am primarilly a hunter and altho i do a bunch of fun experiments with swabbing and blowing as well as cussin n yellin...lol ....i primerilly am looking for stuff that works in the field. this post cought my attention at first then after i read and seen the magnificent target...[ nice shooting by the way] i drifted on to other stuff but...here i am back to ask about the origanal title of "clean bore...clean barrel!" as this is just the way i hunt...with my bore n barrel in this condition exactly.

i will play with cleaning my barrel after two shots....first one out of a clean bore and the second as with a followup shot out of a soiled barrel. im curious if there are tricks to this for the best accurate second shot or third out of a clean barrel in hunting sitiuations...i know the oldtimers had to use second shots so there has to be a method for it.

by the way rick...if i can get 200 yd clusters like yours ill be tickled pink.

45-70 by the way...srry didnt mention this and ill be hunting with the 457125 boolit as well as 65 to 75 gr goex bp...what ever load i can get to cluster close to ricks group.

[RMulhern]

bigted

The shot off the paper in the above photo is one in which there was a slight oily residue within the bore of the rifle as I just ran one dry patch through the bore before starting the string I fired. Had I run two damp patches of just straight water followed by a dry patch...the first shot may have been within the black. The target I fired yesterday is coming in closer to what I want and before I started this string of 11 shots I ran two wet patches of distilled water through the bore followed by 1 dry patch and the first shot I made was the one at 9 o/clock just out of the X ring. As to the hunting protocol....just make certain that you leave the bore in the same condition each time it's cleaned....and shoot enough 1st & 2nd shots to KNOW where those are going to impact! If you've got a good load and worked with your rifle enough to know these things....you'll have meat in the pot my friend!


KILTest5 by RMulhern, on Flickr

I called the shot on the 10 ring line at 3 o/clock but I did not see the shot go at the 4:30 position or those two up at 10:30 or so. Close to what I desire but not quite. I want a tighter cluster of all shots and still working toward that end.

Good day sir!

[dave roelle]

Thanks for the update Rick-------------it will be a bit before i get to play with the KIK again-----next week sometime i hope

I'll bump this thread with the results

dave