Hornady Lock'n'Load AP SUCKS

[KYCaster]

HEY....where'd the pic go???????????

Oh, here it is......
Attachment 41289

Jerry

[truckmsl]

Love my lnl ap. No problems with any brand primers. Over 25k rounds through it so far. Got 4 buds that love theirs too. Can't understand all the hate. If you cant make it work maybe just stop whining and get a press you can deal with.

[Colorado4wheel]

The first thing I noticed in your pic is your priming assembly protrudes above the surface of the shell plate carrier by a substantial amount...on both my presses they are slightly below flush. Seems to me that would interfere with the shuttle travel unless the bottom of the shuttle was relieved to clear the punch.

No it did not. It was flush. They made the channel deeper to get it flush. I never had any issue with the shuttle. Just getting the primers to seat deep enough.

2) Compare the Dillon primer seating assembly to the Hornady and the most obvious difference is the relative sizes of them. The diameter of the threads and the size of the hole it screws into really doesn't make a bit of difference. The assembly screws down against a shoulder at the end of the threads and any pressure is supported by the shoulder and not the threads. The important difference is the size of that knob on the end of the Dillon punch....that's what supports the force of seating the primer....it looks like it's a half inch diameter. The same part on the Hornady is .140 dia...and it's rounded on the end, not flat...BIG difference.

On the Hornady, where the punch bears against the frame of the press when seating the primer, it doesn't take long for that small, rounded surface to wear an indent into the press frame, effectively reducing the punch stroke.

It's all about stroke of the punch. Dillon has way more stroke. Hornady put a cheap looking metal thing on my press to get rid of the divot. Consider how the press had less then 2K rounds in it and still had a divot. That seemed lame to me. Didn't solve the problem either. Simply not enough stroke. I also trimmed the nut down a little to get more stroke as well.

Press worked fine with Federal. Nice and soft. Easy to seat. Remember I had a light weight striker as well in a Glock. Not the ideal setup. But the 550 and 650 did not have issues with the same setup. That is my point. Sometimes design differences really mater.

[dauntlessdave]

Seems to be either love or hate with the L-N-L. I've had two of them, one with and one without case feeder. My first problem involved the correct advance with the pawls. My stupidity which I finally overcame and figured out. The other problem which I never was able to completely solve was the correct and easy seating of primers large or small. I ended up ordering 10 primer slides simply because I was going through them so quickly. Probably through my own inadequacies BUT somehow I've never had any similar issues with my Dillon 550's which just keeps plugging along. Slower than the L-N-L but totally suitable to my needs. I cringe when I read of someone inexperienced picking up a new L-N-L because to my experience it just equals frustration.

I'm happy for those who've had success with it. I think it's innovative but still in need of some further engineering......or me in need of more tinkering skills.

[40Super]

I have always primed by hand so any press mounted priming system is ok with me ,I don't use them. As far as anything else , Ive tried many of the various brands and they all had things that I didn't care for and would have to "redesign". They are not made to be 'factories", they are made for hobbists, and so they are designed to be "good enough" for most, but not all.

I settled on the LNL , mostly because it has the bushings to change individual dies around without resetting them. I load several "recipes" in each caliber , so I have to change seaters frequently(and PTX's, I make my own stepped ones for lead), but the rest can stay. Plus for some I expand seperate from powder dropping. Thats where I prefered the bushings. Thus far no other problems have crept up and I enjoy it quite a bit.

[jcw1970]

The LnL I had for ten years required polishing, adjusting and loctiting when I first got it, then never had a problem with any brand of primers after that.

Most of the folks who have problems with the Hornady primer system haven't polished it, adjusted it correctly and loctited the parts. Because of the design and price point, you do have to do that. But once done, it's typically trouble free
.

That's why I don't have any problems with my LNL. I bought it off Dave. I just picked up another used one with the case feeder with all 4 feeder plates, 4 shell plates, 12 bushings, a powder cop die, a ptx die, and 2 quick change powder dies. For less than a new basic 650.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

jcw1970,

I've had a good handful of problems with the RCBS Pro 2000 press I bought to replace that press I sold you. Apparently I was one of the unlucky ones in that I received a press with an improperly located primer punch hole drilling. RCBS sent me a new sub plate and I ended up having to readjust everything else on the press before things started running smoothly. Now I'm finding the primer seating rod has a bit too much slop in it's mounting bolt and I have to rotate it to prevent off set priming.

I've gotten things to work out and will resolve the primer seater assembly issue with RCBS, but I've surely missed my LnL. I wish I could mix and match the two presses. I'd like the RCBS shell plate advance and primer feed system, the Hornady LnL bushings and primer seating assembly and I'd like both Dillon and Hornady case activated powder measure systems.

How's that for being brand insensitive?

[dauntlessdave]

Most of the folks who have problems with the Hornady primer system haven't polished it, adjusted it correctly and loctited the parts. Because of the design and price point, you do have to do that. But once done, it's typically trouble free

Actually i did do a lot of polishing on the primer slides and constant blowing out of the collected grit. Just not enough I guess. I also found it necessary to smooth the surface where the casings would travel to the shellplate with the case feeder. Maybe the engineering is fine, it's the fit and finish that needs more attention with the L-N-L.

[Lloyd Smale]

I could never see doing that. With all the handling pulling the case out to prime it and putting it back in to continue your taking about all the advantage of loading progressively away. Ive got lnls and dillons and have used all the dillons and yes the primer feeds may not be perfect but they can be made to work just fine on all of them and even if i have an occasional stoppage due to primer misfeed it still is a hell of a lot faster to clear it and get back going then it is to run my brass through the press twice and prime by hand. to me its about like my dad with his first automatic transmition car. It was a 2 speed powerglide chev and for years he insisted on shifting that car even though it was an automatic.

I have always primed by hand so any press mounted priming system is ok with me ,I don't use them. As far as anything else , Ive tried many of the various brands and they all had things that I didn't care for and would have to "redesign". They are not made to be 'factories", they are made for hobbists, and so they are designed to be "good enough" for most, but not all.

I settled on the LNL , mostly because it has the bushings to change individual dies around without resetting them. I load several "recipes" in each caliber , so I have to change seaters frequently(and PTX's, I make my own stepped ones for lead), but the rest can stay. Plus for some I expand seperate from powder dropping. Thats where I prefered the bushings. Thus far no other problems have crept up and I enjoy it quite a bit.

[40Super]

LLOYD: I deprime and size in a single stage,Why? because I like to clean my brass,primer pockets and all.Then I just hand prime them. Why would you think anyone would put a case in the prgressive,deprime,then take out to prime,then put back in to finish the round? Think about it

[gefiltephish]

I performed two tweaks to my LNL which now works perfectly. Primers would not always seat deep enough and the underside of the slider would occasionally hit the primer punch.

I solved the slider hitting by pulling the brass spent primer tube and slipping a washer under the spring. Pulling the tube without destroying it was not the easiest thing, but it can be done. I had to grind a flat on the washer to clear the ram. Better yet if you can find a smaller od washer. This keeps the carriage riding just a bit higher in its static position so the punch pin is not being compressed. Hope that makes sense.

I solved the not-seating-deep-enough issue with an excellent suggestion by someone on the thr forums. Basically you take the primer punch apart and sand the nut to allow for more travel. It's easier to see than to explain, so just pull the punch and look at it. I did this with large and small punches and it worked for me.

[Colorado4wheel]

I did that. Didn't solve the issue 100%. I was able to make mine better but not as reliable a primer seater as my Dillons. I simply hate having ammo that is 99% at a match.

[Lloyd Smale]

i guess i dont see whay anyone would size and prime before putting them in a progressive when a its one of the biggest advantage of loading progressively. I can see it maybe if your anal and want to clean primer pockets but i havent cleaned a primer pocket in 20 years and did actually test many times and found cleaning them did nothing. I can see doing it for rifle brass you want to tumble the lube off of but even then a guy can get by with oneshot for progresively loaded ammo or tumble the loaded ammo for a hour or so and again i did test and it hurts absolutely nothing. I guess anything thing other then .223 308 or 762x39 gets loaded on a single stage. Especially if im using stick powders that have to be dispensed on my electronic dispensors. If i was going to load like you do i wouldnt waste my money on a progressive of any kind. the differnce in running that brass back through to charge and seat bullets and charging with a dispensor on a loading block and seating on a single stage is sure not enough time savings to justify a 600 dollar press. Only time i pull them out of a progressive is the first time loading 223 or 308 with crimped pockets. Ill set one lock and load up with a small base sizing die and a dillon case trimmer. Ill size, deprime, trim and then take them off and tumble them. After that i swage pockets on my dillon swager then put them back on a press and prime, charge, and seat bullets. to each his own i guess but if im paying for equipment its going to get used to save me as much time as possible. if it wont feed primers right it will get fixed till it does or ill get rid of it.

LLOYD: I deprime and size in a single stage,Why? because I like to clean my brass,primer pockets and all.Then I just hand prime them. Why would you think anyone would put a case in the prgressive,deprime,then take out to prime,then put back in to finish the round? Think about it

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Actually i did do a lot of polishing on the primer slides and constant blowing out of the collected grit. Just not enough I guess. I also found it necessary to smooth the surface where the casings would travel to the shellplate with the case feeder. Maybe the engineering is fine, it's the fit and finish that needs more attention with the L-N-L.

I think you spent too much time on the fit and finsh side of thought. Your issue is probably your primer slide cam bar is improperly adjusted. There is a bolt on the bottom of the press and a screw on the top. You'll need to adjust the primer slide in three directions - X, Y and Z. X - horizontal - for this you need to loosen and swing the bar left/right until the primer slide travels right down the middle of the of the slot it rides in. Y - vertical - for this, you need to loosen the bolt on the bottom of the press and move the bar up/down until you get the primer slide hole the primer rides in is perfectly centered until the primer tube base hole. Z - crossways - for this you need to loosen the bolt at the top and insure the primer slide is moving back and forth smoothly in the slot. Generally speaking, when the plastic is aligned with the slot cut for it in the top of the press, you're good. If you have to remove it out of the slot, you're likely not properly adjusted somewhere else. Once you've got it adjusted, blue loctite everything down.

If at this point, with the primer slide moving properly and cam bar adjusted properly, you shouldn't be getting a lot of nastiness in the primer slide/seating area. If you are, you doing something else wrong or the environment you have the press in is allowing too much dust into the area. The mechanism isn't that sensitive unless something is adjusted wrong.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I solved the slider hitting by pulling the brass spent primer tube and slipping a washer under the spring. Pulling the tube without destroying it was not the easiest thing, but it can be done. I had to grind a flat on the washer to clear the ram. Better yet if you can find a smaller od washer. This keeps the carriage riding just a bit higher in its static position so the punch pin is not being compressed. Hope that makes sense.

Hornady makes an aluminum punch pin they give you with their ezject subplate upgrade kits that allows one to easily remove the brass tube and reinstall it without damage. I'm sure a phone call to Hornady can get one of these mailed out.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I did that. Didn't solve the issue 100%. I was able to make mine better but not as reliable a primer seater as my Dillons. I simply hate having ammo that is 99% at a match.

Sounds like you need to call Hornady for another punch pin assembly or do a bit more work on the one you have. If you've improved it, but it's still not a 100%, then you probably didn't go quite far enough in your adjustments/tweaks/mods.

[30cal]

Mine still goin strong at about 70000 rnds

[gefiltephish]

Sounds like you need to call Hornady for another punch pin assembly or do a bit more work on the one you have. If you've improved it, but it's still not a 100%, then you probably didn't go quite far enough in your adjustments/tweaks/mods.

Thanks for the heads up on the Hornady punch for the brass tube. I'll second the suggestion that he may not have sanded the punch body far enough.

I don't recall the measurement, but after working on both the large and small punch bodies, they both wound up measuring exactly the same (with a caliper). And yes I did have to go through several cycles of disassembling/sanding/reasembling each of the punches. Unfortunately there is no guarantee that it will work on every press.

Also, I think Hornady should have embedded a piece of steel into the aluminum frame where the punch pin hits it. It would probably not be a bad idea to drill a shallow hole and slip a piece of steel round stock into it. The hard part is getting a drill in there and keeping it squared up. Hmm, how about drilling and reaming a through hole (for an interference fit) from the bottom using a drilling/tapping block, then red locktite the round stock in place. I'd make sure the round stock was long enough to hit the bench top. Perhaps better yet is drilling/tapping a through hole and screwing a fine thread set screw in from the bottom, business end ground flat. This would make it adjustable. This is probably what I'll consider doing if I notice the divot getting any deeper than it is now, but I really don't expect it to become an issue. Alternatively, I know that some epoxies are extremely hard (devcon steel?) and a small blob could be used to fill the divot. This is no doubt the easiest thing to do.

I keep reading about people having issues with powder jamming up the primer shuttle. I'm guessing they have the powder meaure in station 2. Mine is in station 3 and I don't have this problem. I have an m die in station 2.

The only priming issues I've had since almost always involve S&B brass, which are known for tight pockets and has nothing to do with the press. Of course that issue is easily solved by swaging the pockets on every piece of S&B brass in the first place, or just don't use 'em.

[Colorado4wheel]

Sounds like you need to call Hornady for another punch pin assembly or do a bit more work on the one you have. If you've improved it, but it's still not a 100%, then you probably didn't go quite far enough in your adjustments/tweaks/mods.

Thanks for the heads up on the Hornady punch for the brass tube. I'll second the suggestion that he may not have sanded the punch body far enough.

Just so you know there is a point of diminishing returns on cutting the nut on the primer body down. After you go just a little bit you end up with the spring inside the assembly coil binding. So you end up with a erratic setup because the spring does not coil bind the same every time. I never tried clipping a coil from the spring. That would have been my next move had I kept the press. You can easily see the spring coil bind because the punch bottoms out before it touches the nut. The problem is the LnL setup just does not have enough stroke. That is why I say the press is flawed. If your primer/subplate doesn't look like the top picture call Hornady and get a new subplate.






ALSO,

The next spring that will coil bind as you shorten the nut is the one over the primer tube. You need to take the tube off and shorten it a little as well. You will need to check your press and see what it's doing to be sure. But springs don't behave the same every time. They move around (spin) and "bind up" different in different spots. Just something else to be aware of.

I would hazard a guess that I traveled farther down this rabbit hole then anyone else posting in this thread. I tried everything and worked with Hornady for MONTHS.

[blaser.306]

I had the same clearance issue with mine and a call to hornady resulted in a new sub plate being shipped to me free of charge ! That is the good news , the bad news is the one that was sent to me requiers that I have to get about half of my shell plates up graded to the EZ ject model ! Any one need a non EZ ject #2 ( 30/30 case head ) As I have a spare shell plate ?