Buffalo Hunters casting bullets? Fact or fiction.

[Doughty]

However, I have to ask, how did the Buffalo Hunter do it? Well, not through using buffalo chips which I understand was just about the only fuel available on the open plains.

Harry,

I believe that the problem may, in part, be with your "understanding" of the "open plains" and perhaps in the distinction between "just about the only fuel" and "the only fuel" available.

I would also refer you to the "Encyclopedia of Buffalo Hunters and Skinners" by Gilbert, Remiger, and Cunningham. There are numerous references to reloading of ammunition, reloading "outfits," and molds. Also numerous lists of provisions procurred by the hunters, most of which included "lead" usually in 100 pound weights.

Also, just for fun, I would refer you to "The Champion Buffalo Hunter" by Victor (Old Vic) Grant Smith.

There are others, but if you are interested, these will get you started.

[JDL]

Harry, The buff hunters also used swages to perfect their cast boolits. Read the book, "Getting a Stand" for insights on the buff runners. -JDL

[Harry Eales]

Harry,

I believe that the problem may, in part, be with your "understanding" of the "open plains" and perhaps in the distinction between "just about the only fuel" and "the only fuel" available.

I would also refer you to the "Encyclopedia of Buffalo Hunters and Skinners" by Gilbert, Remiger, and Cunningham. There are numerous references to reloading of ammunition, reloading "outfits," and molds. Also numerous lists of provisions procurred by the hunters, most of which included "lead" usually in 100 pound weights.

Also, just for fun, I would refer you to "The Champion Buffalo Hunter" by Victor (Old Vic) Grant Smith.

There are others, but if you are interested, these will get you started.

Hello Vic,
All I have in my library in relation to this subject is The North American Buffalo by Roe. I'll try and get my local library to get those you suggested. For the next few months I'm saving to buying a mill and tooling to help me build my Borchardt Rifle. I have it part made, but cannot finish it without more tools.

Harry

[Harry Eales]

Harry, The buff hunters also used swages to perfect their cast boolits. Read the book, "Getting a Stand" for insights on the buff runners. -JDL

Hello JDL,

It depends on what they meant by 'swage'. It could also mean 'sizing'.

Whilst Sharps may have swaged bullets to shape from lead, at their factory it does take a lot of pressure. I can remember the first bullet swaging machines coming onto the reloading market back in the 1960's. I don't think they had portable bullet swages back in the 1880's.

I'll read the book if I get half a chance.

Harry

[JDL]

Harry, It wasn't a machine but, a hand held swage die with punch that was hit with a mallet . This produced the proper size and eliminated any voids in the poured slug. -JDL

[Doughty]

Harry,

Tools are like money and bullets; you can never have too many.

If you like making Borchardts, you might want to get in touch with Argus Barker of Monarch Tool Co. in Stevensville, Montana. I don't have his contact info, but I think you could find it if you google him.

[Bullshop Junior]

My bud Leo Remiger sent me a couple extra coppies of the encyclopedia. If anyone is interested let me know.
BIC/BS

[Harry Eales]

Harry, It wasn't a machine but, a hand held swage die with punch that was hit with a mallet . This produced the proper size and eliminated any voids in the poured slug. -JDL

Hello JDL,

If there's an air bubble inside a bullet, there's no way your going to eliminate it. you may compress it down by using such a swage, but it will still be there, and it won't shoot well.

Harry

[Harry Eales]

Harry,

Tools are like money and bullets; you can never have too many.

If you like making Borchardts, you might want to get in touch with Argus Barker of Monarch Tool Co. in Stevensville, Montana. I don't have his contact info, but I think you could find it if you google him.

Hello Vic,
Thanks, I already have Argus Barker's contact address. He teaches gunsmithing these days. I'm attaching a picture to show how far I've got on. I'll be starting on the breech block and the tang vernier sight as soon as it warms up. There's no heat in the workshop I'm using. I've got more done than the picture actually shows, including a few parts of the rear vernier sight. I've made at least two of everything except the receiver, so if I make a machining error I have something to fall back on, without making it from scratch.

Harry

[Bigjohn]

Harry; Welcome and good work on your rifle project.

The book; 'Getting a Stand' by Miles Gilbert; published by Pioneer Press, P. O. Box 684, UNION CITY, Tn 38261. ISBN 1-877704-14-8. This book is an anthology of the writtings of the Buffalo Hunters.

Harry, I think in this situation you must take into consideration that the people we are talking about came from a different time period. In the era we are discussing; People knew how to solve a problem. The store accounts of the hunters show what they purchased in some detail and in most cases you would see lead listed as opposed to Bullets/projectiles.

In that era, the logistics involved in getting a product from and eastern factory to the west were horrendus. Hence the 'shooter' or team captain could not rely on the store for commercially produced projectiles. Bulk powders, metal (lead) and primers were available and each rifle had it's own kit for casting and reloading.

In the terms of the team; if the shooter was not able to down the buffalo then the skinners had no work and no pay at the end of the season.

As I stated at the start of this posting, people from this era were self-reliant; if they had a problem they fixed it as best they could with what they had. IF you check in with Ray Mears or Ron Woods; they can show you how to construct a simple bellows from what is available. Buffalo chips were not the ONLY firemaking material available on the plains; wood was available but you may have to travel around to collect enough; a dangerous task in those days; a small group, wagon and horses, with little protection, a opportunity for the local native Americans.

Basically, what I am saying is; these people had the skills to be self-sufficient, make what they needed and endure the hardships placed before them, so casting a lead boolit over a fire, that was capable of bring down a buffalo from three to four hundred yards or more; very possible.



John.

[TCLouis]

I was talking to and older farmer (in his 60s-70s) near Spring Hill TN and he told of finding a pile of boolits and a big piece of solidified lead on the family farm when he was a kid. They were Minie balls so he figured they had been cast somewhere around the time of the Battle of Franklin. He also guessed that they were told to saddle up/ get ready and had just dumped what lead the RCBS pot still had in it and were too busy to cart off the Minies and lead when they left.

I use 1/2 of a 10 gallon water heater tank and engulf the entire thing in a small bonfire. Come back in 1/2-1 hour and a bunch of molten lead under the sawdust/carbon bed and a bed of coals to keep it molten even though that much mass keeps its heat for a while. It is a cold weather project.

I was gonna use a propane tank but all the "Meth Labs" in the area had them in use!!

[Bullshop]

Bigjohn
There are also a couple referances in that book about using the softest lead they could find so as not to shoot through. Said they would find the expanded ball on the off side just under the hide and reuse it.
I like the part of the jernals that records #of shots fired to animals killed. Nothing came close to the 50/90. And Jim White with his 50/90 had a couple stands that were nearly 1 for 1.
BIC/BS

[hydraulic]

When Columbus arrived there were about 60 million buffalo in what would become the United States. By the end of the Civil War, the only place left on the continent where there were buffalo was on the great plains. They were extinct west of the Rockies and east of the Missouri. There were about 5 million left in the country when the Sharps shooters started hide hunting in the l870's. What happened to the buffalo? The Indians killed the cows for food and hides for the fur trade. Francis Parkman, (The Oregon Trail) l846, says that bulls greatly outnumberd cows. Try putting several herford bulls in with a like number of cows. No cows will get bred. The bulls spend all their time fighting. The last large herd of buffalo were killed north of Dakota's Black Hills in 1888. Spotted Tail of the Brules got a pass from his agent to take his tribe hunting (government ammunition) and they killed every last one of them, something over a thousand.

[MT Chambers]

I have read numerous accounts of the days of the Buffalo and in most accounts they make mention of the provisions that they needed to take on before leaving town for the hunt. Powder, primers, lead bars, etc were all part of the gear. One also reads of how they worked hard to recover the bullet from downed Buffalo, so it could be reused, as lead was hard to come by. Don't know what they used for fuel but it worked for them judging by the toll on Buffalos.

[Bigjohn]

Bullshop; Yes it's a couple of years since I last read the book but it is here in my library still. There is some interesting information in the book for sure. Must read it again.

I believe that all the hunters of that period or earlier tried to recover the spent boolit for just that purpose; re-casting. Why waste a resource that is hard to come by?

John.

[Harry Eales]

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for all your input, comments, suggestions on which books to read, the ingenuity of the 'Old Timers', and your own methodology in doing things. It's been very interesting and in part a fairly steep learning curve, on how things were done in the old days.

I'm no stranger to reloading and casting lead myself and in the 45 years I've been shooting, I've seldom bought factory made ammunition, reloading has been the only way I could have afforded to shoot the volume of ammunition I've used in handguns and rifles. I've reloaded using everything from a Lyman 'Tong Tool' to an automatic Camdex reloading machine which kicked out over 2000 rounds per hour.

I've never had a problem melting lead, using gas or electricity, but it intrigued me reading about 'Buffalo Chips' being used to melt lead, hence my original 'Post'.

Having cut up many 200 pound lead ingots by hand, over the years, I know just how tough that alone can be, using nothing but simple hand tools i.e. Axe, hammer and chisel or saws.

Now I'm well along the descent side of the hill of life, I'm having to slow down a little. In my remaining years I want to compete in Long Range BPCR competition and intend to do so, as soon as I've built my rifle. It will be chambered for one of the Old Buffalo Rifle cartridges.

The professional Buffalo Hunter may be a thing of the past, but their rifles and ammunition remain, and long may they do so.

Harry

[andrew375]

I remember the movie "The Patriot." Mel Gibson, as Francis Marion, "The Swamp Fox," was shown casting bullets over a campfire while plotting the demise of a thinly disguised Banastre Tarleton. "

Also demonstrated by James Stewart in The Last Buffalo.

[chunkum]

If only the old tools could somehow tell their stories. Not sure of the history on this one but it's got to be old. Maybe it experienced the campfire ritual, somewhere, sometime?





It can still mould a pretty good bullet but has been retired our of respect for its service and age.

Best Regards,
Chunkum

[7br]

>In short, I genuinely believe that the casting of bullets around the campfire, using buffalo chips for fuel, is just another myth of the Old West.

Wrong. See http://www.castbullet.com/hunting/bhunt.htm

I used mostly pine cones, but buffalo chips would probably give more heat. It was actually easy to do on a small fire.

Great article. Too often, I think of the past as black and white photographs. I need to remember that a thousand years ago, a venison backstrap cooked over coals tasted as good as it does now.

One of the great things about having kids is the opportunity to do cool things with them that you didn't get to do as a kid. I have done a lot more in Boy Scouts with my son than I ever did as a kid.

[ron brooks]

Two things to remember in this discussion.

(1) Remember that one of the things that made it finically<sp?> feasible for the The hunting of the buffalo was that the railroad could transport the hides back East. Goods were going both ways.

(2) The hunters would have wanted to set up their camp by a soucrce of water, at least close to one. Both they and their stock would require water, and a horse or mule goes through a LOT in a day. On the Plains wherre their is water there is trees, and that means wood.

Ron