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Thread: The proper use of fillers

  1. #21
    Boolit Mold
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    I loaded 20 577/450 cartridges with 38 gr. IMR 4198 and used Puff-Lon as a filler. It appears to be a fine sawdust impregnated with graphite or molybdenum as it leaves a dark smudge on the fingers. I followed the instrructions on the container and tamped the filler over the powder to the neck and then to the mouth of the case followed by seating the 405 gr. boolit. Shot 12-14" high at 100 yds, and the cases had a sweet burnt-wood smell after firing.

  2. #22
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    Muzzlehatch:

    Puff-Lon is a nice ballistic filler but very pricey. It is made of unflavored dietary fiber and a dry lubricant similar to powdered mica and possibly powdered dry graphite. You can get the cheapest dietary fiber at your pharmacy and the mica from MidwayUSA or other sources and make a very similar filler.The dry lubricants are just to keep the dietary fiber flow-able and reduce caking.

    I use BPI Original, and it is lighter in mass than Puff-Lon so pressures are lower and it acts as a quasi gas check for plain base boolits allowing higher velocities . When I am only using a little filler and weight is not as important I use Precision Reloading PRPSB filler, it weighs close to Puff-Lon.

    The BPI is a very compressible, high heat plastic particulate and the PRPSB is a tiny spherical plastic filler. Both are commonly used as buckshot fillers in scatter gun loads, but also recommended as a ballistic filler in reduced loads. Both are also inorganic, inert and don't absorb moisture.

    Actually the dietary filler in Puff-Lon has a slight downside as a ballistic filler. it is organic and therefore it will absorb moisture from the air and change weight in your load but to a much lesser degree than corn grits or cream of wheat. Were you aware of that?



    Gary

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
    280Ackley's Avatar
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    Question on the use of a filler. This weekend I decided to do an experiment with a load I have been working on. 358 Winchester, 37 grns of 4895 behind a 358315 HP that weights right at 200 grn dressed and ready to go. If I did the math right thats roughly a 90% load density. I was getting 2" groups and wanted to try and tighten them up some, so I added a 7/10 grain poly filler on top of the powder which filled the case about half way up the neck just pushed in and a compressed load when I seated the boolit. Point of impact shifted up about 4". Group size didn't shink, but there was no more unburned powder in the barrel. Question is does adding filler amount to the same thing as a smaller case? I would appear from my result that it raised velocity and pressure.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
    Suo Gan's Avatar
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    Cow

    Discussed at large here, and here -->http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm
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  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by onondaga View Post
    .................................................. ..

    Actually the dietary filler in Puff-Lon has a slight downside as a ballistic filler. it is organic and therefore it will absorb moisture from the air and change weight in your load but to a much lesser degree than corn grits or cream of wheat. Were you aware of that?



    Gary


    I did not know about the origin of Puff-Lon nor thought about the moisture implications but then I have only used dacron and on a limited basis.

    Thanks Gary!

    Three 44s

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    I thought I'd try a filler this last weekend. I wanted to clean the lead out of a .44 barrel, so I looked in the cabinet for some COW. None. --side story--when I first met my wife and her son they were COW fans. I got them started eating Grits and now I guess we haven't had COW in the house for a long time. Can you imagine that a born and raised Okie had never had grits.
    COW has been mentioned here before so "why not".
    So I loaded a small measure(enough to go to 102% case capacity) of grits on top of an already light load of W231 and underneath my well fit boolits. The grits of course made a noticable increase in pressure but no flattened primers or the like.
    I only loaded 16 rounds and wish I had done a whole box. I shot those 16 and came home and in just a little while I cleaned all the lead out. I had heavy leading in the first 1/3 of the barrel (7.5"). So heavy in fact that I couldn't push a patched jag all the way through. This is from some ill-fitting commercial cast bevel base that I had been shooting for years.
    Thanks to you fellas I now know that I don't have to put up with that.
    It took 4 evenings and lot of soaking to clean my other revolver, I wanted to establish a base line with that one.
    Anyway, I'd have to say that was successful experiment.

  7. #27
    Boolit Bub
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    Fiber filler in 45-90

    I am interested in using filler material in 45-90 cartridges. I have been using 38-42 gr of 5744. It appears that .5 gr od fiber such as cotton or dacron is standard for seating the powder.

    Is there a difference in performance between cotton and dacron?

    In general is there a reduction in the wieght of powder as listed in manuals when using a fiber filler such as cotton or dacron?

    Thank you
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  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    I cleaned out my dryer screen and thought the lent might a good filler. I dont use fillers so I really dont know why I am posting this.
    Closest recorded range Chrony kill (3 feet with witnesses)

  9. #29
    Boolit Bub
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    This is a great thread, thanks to all

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master


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    FYI

    Was in WalMart today and saw they had Dacron batting in the sewing/fabric section; Had bags from less than $5 (shown) to $18.

    Larry Gibson

    Attachment 72511

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy iwottopq's Avatar
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    Hello to all.
    I reloaded some .308 W cartridges as follow:
    - 10.5 grs of Nobel Sport GM3 (a fast burning hunting powder), military surplus brass, Fiocchi LR primer and a 156 GC cast boolit, without kapok filler. At the range I got a average velocity of 452 m/s (1482 fps) and a good accuracy.
    The same reload but with a 2.0 grains of kapok filler gave me a average velocity of 441 m/s (1446 fps) and again a good accuracy.
    Is it normal or I wrong something???
    Thanks in advance.
    Ciao
    Nino

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Nino

    You don't need the filler with that fast burning powder. You were doing nothing wrong with the 1st load so don't "fix" it. You essentially increased the ejecta (bullet + kapok) weight with the load with kapok. That is possibly why the velocity was less. Could also just have been just the normal variation between test strings.

    Larry Gibson

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy iwottopq's Avatar
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    Hello to all.
    Hello Larry and thanks for your reply.
    In effects I use the kapok filler only to seat the powder against tha flash hole. It is only a psychological fact.
    Furthermore the GM3 powder seems (only seems, I have not eveidence on this, only a feeling) not to be position sensitive, therefore I can eliminate the kapok. Moreover the kapok fibers leave sone traces embedden in the muzzle brake and I must to remove and clean it every abiout 20 - 25 rounds.
    Thanks again for your help.
    Ciao
    Nino

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy iwottopq's Avatar
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    Hello Larry...by the way...if I wonted to change the Nobel Sport GM3 powder with the Unique or 2400 user so extensively in the USA but hard to finf in Italy...what I coul tu use???
    Thanks in advance and sorry for this so generic question.
    Ciao
    Nino

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Using your 156 gr cast bullet loads with Unique will not need a filler. Start at 10 gr and work up to 15 gr. Accuracy going south will tell you when to stop.

    If you use 2400 work up the load using a 1/2 - 3/4 gr dacron filler (use just enough to fill the airspace) to begin with. Suggest you start at 15 or 16 gr and work up to 21 - 22 gr until accuracy goes south.

    Not "generic" at all considering you live in Italy, glad to help. BTW; I've shot a lot of loads with dacron as a filler through rifles with flash suppressors and muzle brakes and haven't had to clean any out like kapok.

    Larry Gibson

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy iwottopq's Avatar
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    Hello to all.
    Thamks Larry, you are very kind. A true gentleman.
    Ciao
    Nino

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by iwottopq View Post
    Hello to all.
    Thamks Larry, you are very kind. A true gentleman.
    Ciao
    Nino
    Well, don't tell anyone that.....would ruin my reputaton around here..........

    Larry Gibson

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy iwottopq's Avatar
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    Wink

    Hello to all.
    Ho Larry...
    Ciao
    Nino

  19. #39
    Boolit Master madsenshooter's Avatar
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    My experience with Puf-Lon? I am now shooting a Krag rifle that produces cases with an odd bulge on the neck, aka a ringed chamber. It came about because I initially didn't know how much to use. Put a certain Lee Dipper full in the case over the powder and it came up higher in the neck than I wanted. I couldn't dump it out, there was powder below it, so I tamped it down. I got a smaller Lee Dipper for the rest of the loads. The load with the tamped down Puf-Lon is the one that ringed my chamber. I can see where it super compressed right at the base of the bullet. The bullets were hard into the rifling, and hard cast. Thus far, the ring isn't growing, but I think the old Krag barrel steel is somewhat soft and eventually the barrel will be replaced with a Criterion. Be careful with fillers!
    "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."

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  20. #40
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    I didn't see this really addressed here except with iwottopq's example of the fast burning powder, how much does a filler change velocity and pressure in a given load?

    I've been working up aload for a deer load in .300 Savage. With 28 grains of IMR 4895, a tuft of dacron batting and the Ideal 31141, I'm getting more than adequate hunting accuracy out of my Savage 99 and Model 1920. According to my RCBS cast manual, 28 grains without filler is less than 1800 FPS with their 180 grain bullet, similar to the 31141. Does my filler change that (I know, I should get a chronograph)? It just seems like that charge in a case that size should be moving that bullet faster. I've read that you need to take the filler into consideration when working up loads, so somebody figured they can increase pressure enough to advise caution.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check