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Thread: Composite Bullets ???

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Cool Composite Bullets ???

    About twenty years ago, Ross Sefreid had an article about casting Bullets from two different Alloys.

    You pour enough Pure Lead into the cavity to slightly above the first driving band. You wait--this is a timed pause.

    Too early, and your second allow will thoroughly mix with the Pure Lead.

    Too Tardy, and the two Bullet halves won't fully fuse.

    The idea is to have some very soft, expanding alloy up front--to expand; and a fairly hard alloy in back, to take the Rifling--and to Not lead the Bore.

    Seyfried said that he had a measuring devise on the first pot--to precisely measure how much of the soft alloy went in.

    Anyway, I've long since lost the Article. Don't remember the name of the flow measure.....

    Anyway, does anyone know anything about such a process?

    .....RVM45

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Do a search for BruceB's posts on softpoint bullets - he has done the most work with it of anyone I know. His post was even referenced in a Handloader article.
    Tony

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Von Gruff's Avatar
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    Too many variables in the two pot method.

    Her is the link to BruceB's sticky on softnosing.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=11749

    Von Gruff.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I believe LBT made the 2alloy pot ,but its been off the market for many years. Bruce B's method is SLOW, but does work. I have used the 2 pot method with mini ladles made from spent pistol cases for the soft lead and a Lee bottom pour for the hard base alloy. I have found sizing and seating gas checks to be a problem IF the bullets need much pressure to do this. A very special top punch that fit below the SOFT alloy was made for when I used Linotype for the base. I must admit Bruces bullets LOOK prettier than mine ,BUT mine do work!! They fly about the same as single alloys do so you can practice with single alloy slugs .You should not need many 2 alloy bullets for a hunting season, so Bruce's method MAY work for you!

  5. #5
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    HeavyMetal's Avatar
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    Lyman actually made a two mold kit for doing this First mold made the hard base second mold soft "point" the two were super glued together for a finished lubed product.

    Never knew anyone that had this mold set but I did see one for sale once. I also saw an article in one of the mags but forget which one.

    If I was that worried about leading and xpansion I'd haunt e bay until one showed up.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master HARRYMPOPE's Avatar
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    I had the Lyman composites in 44 and 357 expansion was good but accuracy not so good as std solids or HP's.And the process was time consuming and messy i thought.

    HMP

  7. #7
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    I tried Verals two dipper method years ago and it was a PITA. I also tried the pure roundball in the mold method and got erratic results. After shooting hundreds of hogs I decided a WFN or LFN that punched east to west would anchor them easily.
    If God didn't want man to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of MEAT!

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  8. #8
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    I use the dipper method to cast soft noses at times. I have a separate small pot the has almost pure lead in it. I don't find it difficult to get decent looking bullets although using BruceB's method it is easier, although slower
    The bullets may not look great hit they sure do work. I try to keep them in longer for caliber bullets so I can get good penetration even after the nose expands or blows off.
    More recently I have gone back to plain old flat noses. I don't hunt anything the needs more than a big flat nose at moderate velocity to kill. Deer seem to die just as quickly. My bear died just fine too. Less hassle, same results.

    Brad

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Von Gruff's Avatar
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    I found it easier to cast the soft boolit in 50/50 then cut the noses in a jig so that I could guarantee the same results every time.

    I usually cast up a batch in 50/50 and use the majority for plinking but take some and cut the noses to save for my soft nosed hunting bullets.


    This is just a piece of scrap brass with a hole in it and a piece of hardwood under it to dictate a common length of nose saved.


    With one in the mould it is ready for the lino shank.


    Pour the lino then back into the pot to weld them together.


    Cool on a wet towel. (not one of the best from the linnen cupboard though)


    Get a boolit like this.


    That will expand to .577 from .284 and and hold together like this for 100% weight retention.



    and do this to this at 185yds and further at 2415fps.



    Von Gruff.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    LBT will make you moulds for casting soft noses in their moulds. It's best that the two moulds be cut at the same time, but Veral claims to be able to make them for existing moulds if you send him the mould you want to use so he can take measurements from it.


    The LBT soft nose caster was built on a LEE pot. I guess it was a pain to manufacture, and wasn't very profitable. I asked if he could still build them, and he told me "no".

  11. #11
    Boolit Master HARRYMPOPE's Avatar
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    i didn't think they had Chupacabras in NZ,What is that animal?Good info on you soft-nose tests,thanks!

    HMP

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Von Gruff's Avatar
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    Harry that is a common goat. They are domestic's from many many years ago that have escaped and gon ferel. They often breed to colour in various pockets round the country. I have got onto mobs that had a lot of angora in them.

    Von Gruff.
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  13. #13
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    I hear they are good cooked on a metal rod driven into the ground at an angle with a fire under it. Might as some of our brethren from Texas, that is the area i've heard it done in.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Cabrito season is just around the corner. About our last time to be able to cook outdoors without breaking a sweat.

  15. #15
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    The flow meter was made by an outfit that moved around a few times, The article was in 87 and when I looked for one in 95 the manufacturer told me they were all long gone. You can make a cut down cartridge case and fill it with lead for a two alloy bullet. I have had better luck making them with the BruceB method and 32 cal commercial RB's.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  16. #16
    Boolit Master nanuk's Avatar
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    if you were to get someone to mill down an identical mould, you could cast an exact nose.

    here is an idea....

    next time NOE makes a mould for an appropriate boolit, have him make ONE cavity just deep enough for the nose! Kinda like an EXTREME two weight boolit.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Nanuk,
    I saw an ad not too long ago for a soft point mould that poured just as you describe 1 nose 1 full boolit.

    It may have been a Handloader in which case 3-5 years ago.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master in Heaven's Range

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    Von Gruff:

    I LIKE your process! That's the most simple and effective method I've seen. Sure, it takes a couple more steps, but it WILL develop consistent boolits. Nice work!

    Regards,

    Stew
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  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    Lyman actually made a two mold kit for doing this First mold made the hard base second mold soft "point" the two were super glued together for a finished lubed product.

    Never knew anyone that had this mold set but I did see one for sale once. I also saw an article in one of the mags but forget which one.

    If I was that worried about leading and xpansion I'd haunt e bay until one showed up.
    I had the Lyman 429625 A&B mould set. I could not find any glue to hold the two parts together due to re-coil from the guns.
    I sold the rear (base) mould to a guy on this site who really wanted it, but I kept the nose mould. I've made several 2 alloy boolits, casting the nose outta pure lead, lettin them cool, and then placing them in an up to temperature 429421, or 429244 or 429650, and then casting the base on top with a harder alloy. The nose has a "little tail" on it that protrudes backwards into the base when poured. This makes a nice solid joint of the two alloys.
    I've not killed any game with them yet, unless Spokane phone books qualify. The expansion is very good and the boolits hold together well. A few years ago, I started playing around with hollow point boolits thanks to John,Tony and Mark, and kinda let the composite boolit thing lapse. If any of you .44 shooters wanna try some pure lead noses in your 429421,429244 or 429650 moulds, send me a PM and I'll send you some.
    It's all chicken, even the beak!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I tried what Ross wrote-- and it works -- took some ground hogs and deer and they work well-- now big meplat or cast hp are good enough for me--it seems to me that the cup point worked best as I hp'd some of them

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check