Nice article by Duke BUT...

[Patrick L]

In the current issue of Handloader, Mike Venturino did a nice article on all of the pistol cartridges that have been US military issue since the evolution of cartridges, say about 140 years or so. It was well written and very informative, as are all of Duke's articles.

But I think he missed one. The .38 Special was also pressed into military service, wasn't it? It was my understanding that lots of aviators were issued .38 revolvers during WWII (S&W Victory Model,) and also various military law enforcement types were as well long after that. One of my most cherished old relics is my father's copy of the "Pistols and Revolvers" field manual he brought home from his Army service in the mid 50's, and there are chapters on the 1911/1911A1, the Model 1917 revolvers, and .38 Special revolvers. An early 70s era copy of the same manual I picked up at an Army Navy store dispensed with the 1917s but the .38s were in that one too.

Duke, was this an oversight or did you make a concious decision not to include this caliber? I'm not being critical, I still think you're one of the best writers out there. I'm just curious.

[Recluse]

The U.S. Air Force continued to issue .38 Special revolvers to their aircrews up to and beyond Vietnam. I remember our SPs (Security Police) carrying them in the 70's and 80's.

[waksupi]

Was the .38 Special developed by the military? Maybe that is the hitch.

[MtGun44]

My Dad was a Naval Aviator and was issued a Victory Model S&W .38 Spl in WW2.
They carried tracers, more for signalling than for self defense.

Bill

[Ilwil]

.38 special was the secondary issue pistol round from at least WWII until 1985 when the 9mm replaced it and .45 acp. I was an MP Investigator, later a CID agent; we carried 2" S&W Model 10s. Air crew, MP K-9 handlers, and women were among those who carried the .38.
Most of my .38 brass is military, with arsenal head stamps.

[beagle]

We had .38 Special revolvers in the Apache Battalion in the 101st up until 1989 when I retired. S&Ws, a few new Ruger DAs and a load of old parkerized Colts. I had an old Colt and it never failed me and was easier to keep from rusting under field conditions than were the S & Ws. The Rugers were the worst of the lot and had to be kept meticulously clean or dust would cause them to be completely inoperable.

The Coltsbnever failed./beagle

[redneckdan]

I read through the issue yesterday. I was kind of disappointed in one of the articles. The writer showed a lack of understanding of basic mechanical design principles.


It was kind of cool to see a 1911 love fest issue.

[cajun shooter]

I know for a fact as I secured some of that ball ammo for myself back in 1966. I was looking at it as a GI bonus check. The pilots carried the revolvers in shoulder rigs.

[longhorn]

Beagle--that's really interesting; the only Security Six I've owned was a stainless, but never hiccuped. Any idea why the Rugers weren't reliable? Not doubting, just wondering.

[runfiverun]

kind of cool about the 1911?
any gun mag over the last 5 years has been a 1911 love fest.
you probably missed the article, flipping past the 30 or so ar-15 articles.
ditto on getting the s&w, i was assigned one and qualified with it but rarely carried it.
i don't recall seeing a ruger, they were most likely after my time, i don't think the security six was being sold in big numbers [or even available ,thinking ] then either.

[405]

Beagle--that's really interesting; the only Security Six I've owned was a stainless, but never hiccuped. Any idea why the Rugers weren't reliable? Not doubting, just wondering.

Some of us were issued the Ruger Security Six SS revolvers during one "cost saving" low bid episode. Until then the SW 19 was standard. It took only one excursion into the low bid arena to convince the big cheese it probably wasn't the wisest move. After that relatively small bid lot of maybe 100-200 Rugers the bosses got religion and went with the SW 66 for the remainder of the DA revolver era. Over time the SW 19s and 66s were phased out in favor of the standard semi-auto- with most opting for the Glock. I think all the Rugers were phased out much sooner.

The problem with those Security Sixes was that the cylinder to forcing cone gap was way too tight and would jam the cylinder after a few rounds depending on the type of ammo. Ruger was notified and Ruger provided an armorer's workshop and tools necessary for all agencies that had that model. Our armorer took in all the issued Security Sixes in rotation and in about a year had them all re-gapped.

During that time early/mid 70s IIRC, the Security Six gained the nickname within the agency as the "Clawhammer".

[singleshot]

When I came into the military in 1988 I qualified with a 38 sp revolver. No longer used, but I'm just sayin'....

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I guess duke missed out on the ones that went to the Philippines in 1898...

Rich

[MtGun44]

IIRC the 1898 Phillipines guns were Colts in .38 Colt, not .38 Spl.

Bill

[Bret4207]

kind of cool about the 1911?
any gun mag over the last 5 years has been a 1911 love fest.
you probably missed the article, flipping past the 30 or so ar-15 articles.

HAR!!! Ain't that the truth!

[Bret4207]

Hey guys, FWIW, Julian Hatcher, O'Connor, Page, even the Sainted Elmer and Townsend Whelen missed the boat a time or two. Don't be too hard on ol' Mikey, at least he's not afraid to mingle with the unwashed masses. That'd be us BTW!

[Patrick L]

I want to make it perfectly clear that the intent of my post was NOT to be hard on Mike, just to inquire as to why he left that one out.

Ihaho Sharpshooter, he DID mention the one that went to the Philippines, that was the .38 Long Colt.

[Hurricane]

I read the Handloader article and it was clear to me that Mike was talking about reloading for military pistols, as in semi-auto pistols. Things he was talking about such as picking a round nose bullet in order to feed correctly and a hard bullet to feed better do not apply to revolvers that can easily use any nose profile and any hardness for the bullet. Revolvers were not in the scope of his article.

[Mike Venturino]

I Left it out because it wasn't actually "standard" as in standard issue to U.S. Army infantry crew served weapons teams or cavalrymen. In WW2 it was issued to naval aviators. But the article was only about U.S. Army. I also didn't cover .32 ACP and .380 Auto as issued to general officers upon getting their first star.

Also that was a column and you're limited to about 1000 words so you have to pick a topic and be specific.

Idaho Sharpshooter: .38 Special wasn't introduced until 1899.

Morning all, off to a gun show so I hope I either find something great or bring all my money home again.

Mike V.

[Mike Venturino]

Hurricane: you're talking about a feature in a previous issue. These guys are discussing a column in the brand new issue.

Thanks
MLV