Ive recently started trying cast bullets in my 30-06. The bullet I'm using is the Lee .308 200gr gas check. With gas checks over 34 grains of reloaded 7 I'm getting a ridiculous amount of leading after only 10 shots.
My bullets are cast wheel weights and lubed with Alox.
My goal is 2200 fps for use on antelope.
Anyone out there know what I'm doing wrong?
Originally Posted by Blackhawk45hunter
Yes, swap powders and use 16 grs. of 2400, size the bullets to .310. Be certain that you have enough flare on the case to allow 3/4 of the gas check to easily insert itself into the case when you are seating the bullet.
Seat the bullet so that it lightly engraves the rifling when the bolt is closed. After you have shot some good groups with this , you can think about 2,200 fps with good accuracy later ( a wonderful goal, but one that you'll find VERY difficult to achieve )
Best stay in the 1,800 fps. zone. You'll be much happier.
All that lead you're getting after 10 rds. tells me you have a VERY poor bullet fit in the throat of the rifle and you're pushing the bullet way too fast.
Ben
Air cooled wheel weight will roll snake eyes, much above 2K fps in the 30-06. If you persist on the same course, you will need a harder bullet and a better lube.
I agree with Ben in all regards. You bullet going 2.2K won't kill any better than the same bullet going 1.8K.
Your bullet is rather too pointed for my taste as a game bullet. I would prefer something with a meplat. A few years back I had Mountain Molds make me a 220 grain 30 caliber mold in which the bullet had a large .250 meplat for just such use. It isn't a target bullet, but will hold up decent accuracy to 200 yards which is all I want. I launch it at about 1.9K fps. Unless a hollow point is used, most all cast bullets will punch a through and through wound. The larger the meplat, the great the damage as the flat nose pushes tissue, blood and bone in front of it.
Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.
Ben's supplied excellent information.
I'll suggest to use a better lube, applied either by pan or lubrisizer.
I've been sizing to .308, I'll try upping it to .309 or .310
I want to push it as fast as I can for a flatter trajectory, it's hard to get a shot under 300 yards in the prairies of Wyoming and I need all the help I can get. :P
I also want to try heat treating them too, will that give me a significant increase in hardness or will I just be wasting my time?
Don't waste your time heat-treating them with your present configuration.
I load that 200 grain boolit up sized to .310 and lubed with a conventional lube of my own making. You can use Carnauba Red and be just fine--it's an outstanding lube.
I use 37.0 grains of IMR4350 to push that boolit and I get MOA. You're using way too much of a way too fast powder for a lead boolit in way too long of a barrel pushing for way too much velocity. Bad combination all around, and add to the fact that you're undersizing the boolit, you're getting bad results.
Work the load up to see how it does for you before simply starting off at the desired objective.
Ben hit it on the nose. If you have been sizing .308, then upping it to .310 will make a huge difference. 2200 fps is a pretty big hurdle right out the gate. Usually you can get GC WW up to 1800-2k without doing anything fancy. That extra few hundred FPS is doable, but fit and hardness becomes even more important at that point.
Good luck Blackhawk45hunter, I'm sure you'll find something that works for you with a little experimentation.
How do I upsize them?
There are a couple different ways to bump boolits up. You are probably better off just waiting untill your .310 sizer shows up then sizing them down and trying to bump them back up without a die.
If the boolits aren't dropping at least .310", do a search for "beagling". It's a reversible process that allows a mould to drop fatter boolits. Lapping is another method, though it is permanent.
Well my bullet mold drops at around .309 to begin with.
Is there a way to seat my gas checks without a sizer so I can use them straight from the mold?
I'm using hornady GC's.
What size are they dropping from the mold? It might not be necessary to size them at all. If they drop at 310 or 311 they might shoot great as cast. Alox by its self will hardly do the job in your application. See White Label for lubes that can be pan lubed.
This.
I have had good luck in my garands with 200 grain with Reloader 15, Varget and H4831. I run around 2000 to 2100 fps. If I was going for 2200 fps, I would probably work up starting with 32 grains of Varget, 36 grains of Reloader 15 or 42 grains of H4831.
If you're using a Lyman lubrisizer, they make a little gadget called a gas check seater that you use with the lubrisizer. This allows the 'check to be seated without running the boolit all the way into the die. After seating the 'checks on all the boolits you need for a given time, you can then run them into a .310 die, for instance, and lube them without sizing them down.
You might also try to obtain some linotype to add to your alloy. This will cause your boolits to drop from the mould at a slightly larger size. They will also be harder and more brittle, but as long as the alloy contains a fair amount of lead, they shouldn't shatter on impact.
Regards,
Stew
Sig file change:
"Obi Wan Baloney"
VOTE 2012! Throw them out! Every last one of them! (Feel free to add this to your sig. Spread the word!)
"...Get a rope." Pace Picante Sauce commercial, ca. 1984
"I (did, on several occasions) swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against ALL enemies, foreign AND domestic, and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same." And when I left, they never asked me to recant.
The first thing I would do is to slug the barrel (slugging the throat can help too) to find out what size to start at.
My cast boolit .30-06 will accept a .311" diameter boolit. I use the Lee 312-185 that they market for the .303 British. It drops from my mold with my WW at .313", I lube and seat the gaschecks in a .313 die, then push them through a .311" Lee die.
Robert
If you're looking for a 300 yard hunting rifle you might also want to re-think your approach. Remaining velocity from a bullet hard enough to give sustainable accuracy at those MV levels, coupled with the shape of the nose, equals a not very good shake for the poor critter you aim to cleanly kill.
Get a different mould, preferably with a nice wide flat meplat, size it to fit your bore, cast it soft enough to expand at the farthest distance you realistically think you'll shoot, and drive it at a suitable velocity (which will probably be rather a fair bit less than 2200fps). Then, when you work all that out, practice your hunting skills to get way closer than 300 yds. of your quarry. I may be an Easterner, but during several trips to Wyoming I never killed anything farther than 60 yds. Most, including three pronghorns, were taken at much closer distances. (When asked by guides how I wished to hunt I replied that I wanted to stalk close, not play Joe Sniper from a 1/4 mile away. That response usually produced a smile and a remark like "Oh, so you want to HUNT?")
Last edited by gnoahhh; 01-10-2011 at 06:32 PM.
If you are set on that cast bullet then I suggest you;
Add 2% tin for better fillout to the WWs and let air cool. You'll want some semblance of bullet performance and a "tough" alloy always does better than a hard brittle alloy for accuracy.
Cast hot for maximum fillout.
If they drop .309-.310 get a .310 sizer.
If they drop .310+ get a .311 sizer.
Make sure the bullet base is square with the sprue evenly cut off.
Make sure the GC (Hornady's are fine) is seated square and bottemed out on the GC shank.
If you are using Lee Liquid Alox double or triple dip the driving band groove portion of the bullets so there is sufficient lube. If you are using another "alox" what kind is it? I have pushed a couple alox/beeswax lubes to 2600+ fps with no leading and excellent accuracy.
Use a slower burning powder as already mentioned. AA4350, RL19 and H4831SC work for me for such loads in the '06.
Since this is a hunting load you won't be shooting long strings. I suggest shooting 8 shot test strings and cleaning the barrel between strings. While shooting for group/accuracy pay attention where the 1st three shots go from the clean barrel. Also pay attention to the last 3 shots and see if they make the group larger. When you find a load that puts the 1st five shots into 2 moa at 100 and 200 yards at 2200 fps consistently then it's time to confirm your 300+ yard shooting with such a load.
The reason for suggesting all of ths is your goal of 2200 fps from a 10" twist '06 is advanced loading and requires advanced techniques. Keep in mind that you just may not beable to do it with that bullet. The Lee C312-185-2R is a good one if it will fit in your '06 as is the 314299. I prefer a lighter weight Lovern style bullet, 311466, for my higher velocity .30 cal loads. Good luck in your quest.
Larry Gibson
Yeah it's Lee Liquid Alox.
I think I'll drop my target velocity down to 1800-2000ish that'll give me flat enough trajectory for a 300 yard shot and still have enough energy when it gets there.
Could I hand seat the gas checks and load them unsized/crimped?
That would bring me up in diameter and I wouldn't have to wait 2 weeks for another sizing die.
I beagled a mould to get .311". Then my gas checks wouldn't fit the shanks. I made a die for my press to open the checks just a wee bit to get them on.
Blackhawk where are you located?
Northeast ohio
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote