Why I don't use Titegroup in the .500 S&W...

[John Ross]

Shown below is the THIRD ruined 500 I have personally handled. (I took these pictures).

In all three cases, the owner said it was a load of 17 grains of Titegroup (yes, seventeen in all three instances) and a cast bullet in the lower weight range for a .500 (370 grains or less).





Relevant comment I posted before:

Detonation?

Detonation is what allegedly can happen when too little of certain powders is used. I say allegedly because the powder companies insist that detonation is a myth, they have never been able to make it happen in the lab, and all purported examples of detonation are actually double charges or other human errors such as mistakenly using the wrong powder.

The theory (espoused by those that believe detonation actually happens) is that with too little powder and too much air space in the case, the powder sometimes doesn’t burn progressively, but rather the primer ignites every grain in the entire charge at the same time and it goes boom all at once, like dynamite or some other high explosive.

I have seen one .500 with its cylinder deformed and flattened against the top strap. The shooter was a very experienced reloader with hundreds of thousands of rounds experience. He said his load was a charge of Titegroup that was a few grains below the starting recommendation with a lightweight cast bullet. He believes he got detonation. Hodgdon says that’s impossible, and that he loaded a double charge. Smith & Wesson understandably would not replace the gun under warranty. Which was it, detonation or double charge?

In my opinion, there have been far too many reports of weird things happening when extra-light charges are used (most of them by cowboy action shooters) to dismiss them all as reloading error. Again, there’s a simple way to avoid any possibility of detonation ever happening to you: Stick with loads that fill most or all of the available case capacity. Want a lighter load? Use a slower powder. If the load still kicks too much, the .500 isn’t the gun for you.
__________________

[Bullshop]

That makes it way easier the measure throat angle.

[Hickory]

Shown below is the THIRD ruined 500 I have personally handled.

Huummmm

[MtGun44]

Double charge?

I know, "I could NEVER double charge, because my . . . . . . . . yada, yada, yada"

Once saw a .44 Automag with NO lugs on the bolt. . . . . . guy apparently mistook BE for
2400. OOPS. No injury and parts were still available then, looked like a new bolt
would put him back in business. Only point this out because 22 gr or so of BE is
kinda like maybe 34 gr of TG -- very much too much of a very fast, high energy
powder in a really strong gun.

Bill

[mroliver77]

So John, what do you believe is the cause? I take it that you personally do not believe the detonation(SEE) theory? I myself am still undecided and find it hard to filter through all the BS to get enough info to form an enlightened opinion.
Good to see you here. You don,t show up enough.
Jay

[Swede44mag]

It could be what I call Wonder powder. It was left in the powder measure untill you cant remember what it for sure was. Then loaded with the wrong data for the wrong powder.
I have had some Wonder powder before it hurts to dump out 1/2 or pounds and set a match to it outside just to burn it off.

I hope the person had no serious injuries. The only pistol I ever seen in person that had blew up was a Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44mag. My friend had gotten the re-loads from another friend of his. When he started shooting them one blew out the top of the cylinder and Top of the pistol. He was lucky he didnt get injured just scared and a New Ruger .44mag was toast.

Thanks for the post I will keep the Titegroup in mind.

[targetshootr]

I have never understood why people use such a fast powder in such large cases.

[wellfedirishman]

Shown below is the THIRD ruined 500 I have personally handled. (I took these pictures).

I for sure am not going to let you near any of my 500s

Joking aside, that must have been one heck of a detonation to blow the topstrap of an X-frame S&W 500.

Thanks for the warning and for the pictures, I will make sure not to use any Titegroup. I will stick to Trailboss for light loads in this caliber.

[John Ross]

So John, what do you believe is the cause? I take it that you personally do not believe the detonation(SEE) theory? I myself am still undecided and find it hard to filter through all the BS to get enough info to form an enlightened opinion.
Jay

I'm not sure on SEE. I just follow my aforementioned rule on powder speed and use a powder slow enough that you can't physically put enough of it in the case to blow up the gun.

[white eagle]

I like to stick to powders that fill the case
that is scary I hope the shooter is alright

[krit29-2]

would Unique , something like 13-17 grains be better for light loads, when using cast bullets in the 370 range ?

[John Ross]

would Unique , something like 13-17 grains be better for light loads, when using cast bullets in the 370 range ?

IMO, no. Still possible to double charge. Load trail Boss to base of bullet. Better yet, leave the .500 in the safe and shoot a milder gun.

[44man]

That makes it way easier the measure throat angle.

Now you got me there! Spilled my coffee and had to get a drink.
My question is always the same, if you buy a .475 or one of the .500's, what the heck is anyone looking for light loads for? It is a hunting gun, not a plinker.
Yeah, yeah, they kick, seems they are made that way.
No one will know what happened to that gun. It really looks like a charge failed to light and the boolit lodged in the bore so the next took it apart.
Could it be detonation? Yes and maybe the primer pushed out the boolit into the cone before the powder went off too. We will never know.
Double charge? Anyone that uses a loading block and inspects every case should never do that but a progressive press or loading one case at a time can get you in trouble.
Using the wrong powder for the application just to reduce recoil can cause trouble too.
I am always baffled by a guy that wants to shoot Unique in a .44 to better then 1200 fps when 296 and H110 are there for 1300 fps or more, yet the thinking is 100 fps or so less is easier to shoot.

[fuji]

Thank you! I was going to load up my first 480 Rugers with Tightgroup since I have some handy. The sites talked about the slower burning powders ie lil gun and am picking some up before the cases arrive.

Wanted to go that way anyhow but now I think I will. The other reason is that they call for 9gr of Tightgroup for that big case. Seems too little>

Joe

[John Ross]

Thank you! I was going to load up my first 480 Rugers with Tightgroup since I have some handy.

Joe

Might want to rethink Titegroup. Burns HOT and has forcing cone issues.

[August]

Seventeen grains of Titegroup, huh?

Seems like the appropriate end to a genetics experiment gone bad.

It occurs to me I could load all the holes in the cylinder with that much titegroup.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Want a lighter load? Use a slower powder. If the load still kicks too much, the .500 isn’t the gun for you.

Want a lighter load? ... the .500 isn’t the gun for you

I couldn't agree more, the right tool for the right job !

[John Ross]

Seventeen grains of Titegroup, huh?

Seems like the appropriate end to a genetics experiment gone bad.

It occurs to me I could load all the holes in the cylinder with that much titegroup.

Hunh? You DO realize what case we're talking about here...?

[MtGun44]

I do like the concept of using a powder that cannot be dbl charged, but
in some calibers it is a bit impractical, not impossible of course. But you can
pretty much bet that one day, you will make a mistake.

I must say that those are impressive pictures.

John, thanks for writing the book - enjoyed it. Long EZ driver, and my Dad has
a UPF-7, altho with the std 220 Continental, so much more of a pussycat.

Bill

[Bullshop]

For a light load but still fill the case why not Trail Boss?