Here is the write-up "My homemade black powder"

[trooperdan]

Skylighter is having a one-day 2 for 1 special, all the chemical to make 10 pounds of powder for $44 plus shipping... so you get what you need for 20 pounds of powder just today for the $44 plus shipping.

http://www.skylighter.com/making-bla...paign=BPTIMES2

[T-Man]

I don't know of anyone is even following this post any more, but I do make my own powder and wanted to comment. I always leave my 'slurry' over night in the fridge before drying it and final processing. I also use stale horse urine. Nasty, I know, but it oxidizes way better than plain H2O. I also use nothing but Alder charcoal. If you're a dedicated powder maker, do what I did and plant some alder saplings on a fence row. Pruning every year and putting the cuttings up in wire wrapped bunches, storing them in the attic to dry. You will be amazed at the increase in performance of your finished product by substituting the urine for water, and using alder charcoal. Human urine can be used, but I just have issues with that. To each his own.

[Bert2368]

I use black powder in my work. By the ton. When I checked inventory at year's end, we had about 800lb. of various types of bulk BP in the magazine, not counting many more tons on site as part of finished display fireworks

I made my first batch of BP at about 16- Converted my Sears Roebuck & Co. rock polisher into a ball mill...

I don't have the time these days to make BP, we generally buy it in the form of finished goods (we import display fireworks). The bulk powder is mostly used for repairing shells and special effects work.

Making black powder is intrinsically dangerous. That never stopped me as a lad, but I was usually somewhat careful and in hindsight, VERY lucky at times. I have no scars or legal issues from my childhood experiments and amateur fireworks making days. Many others were not so lucky. Some of you have/are going to make powder no matter what, the best I can do to mitigate your hazards is point out the safety & legal issues, direct you to good information and suggest a reasonably safe/efficient method.

Always proceed with the thought "what is the worst thing that can happen when I do this?", and conduct yourself accordingly.

If you're doing something with explosives and you hear a little voice in the back of your head say "maybe this isn't a good idea?" LISTEN TO IT AND STOP! I've heard too many people tell me about that little voice... From a bed in a burn ward.

First off: Do everything OUTSIDE, not in your house (NOT in the garage next to your lawn mower, cars, gasoline cans & etc. either!)

I personally know a couple of people who thought just going out to the garage was acceptable. They survived, but large parts of their garages did NOT. So don't... The fire department and insurance claims adjusters won't be considerate and understanding if you do. They may call BATFE, who likely will be even less kind and considerate.

Choose a place sheltered from the weather, away from kids, dogs, wives and other distractions. A few 2x4's, sheets of 1/2" plywood for a roof and tarps on 2 sides for a wall will be enough structure. Be sure if you need to run away quickly that you can do so- If there's a door, NOTHING should be between you and it and any door should NOT latch- it must OPEN OUTWARDS AT A PUSH! I have been told by persons who experienced accidents that it's very hard to find doorknobs in a cloud of black powder smoke while your hair and clothing are on fire. It would be best you disn't learn that the hard way...

Wear no synthetic materials while handling explosives. These may generate static electricity, and having melted plastic all over your 2nd and 3rd degree burns will complicate your treatment in the burn ward. Choose Cotton, wool, leather. None of these continue to burn with a flame after the flame source is removed.

Don't work in dry cold weather or other conditions that generate
static electricity. Learn about grounding, you really don't want to have a big fat static spark jump from you to the pile of powder you're handling. Plastic ball mill jars can be excellent static generators in operation-

-------------------------------

I hope you read all that and thought about it a bit. Now for the part you are actually interested in.

After some years of experience, I used a slight modification of the CIA technique many of you are using. I usually made a 1 kilo batch (2.2 lb.)

Waltham Abbey ratios are 75% Potassium nitrate : 15% charcoal : 10% Sulfur. Alcohol I used was (cheap!) hardware or paint store denatured ethanol, it's less than 5% water.

Urine is not needed in processing. Trust me on that, the oldest historical references called for bizarre sympathetic magic type ingredients, such as obtaining the urine of a wine drinking bishop to corn powder with. No modern manufacturer does this...

See the references listed below to learn about charcoal, BBQ briquettes do not work very well.

Ball mill just the charcoal and Sulfur together until flour fine. Ball milling the complete mix (with the nitrate) is not necessary, requires a larger mill and is probably the most dangerous method in modern use- A ball mill explosion is a shrapnel bomb. It works, and produces good powder with the additional steps of compressing the mill dust and then breaking up slabs- but then you'll need a hydraulic press and a way to break up the china plate hard pressed slabs or pucks of powder. If you want harder grains, a little dextrin or red gum (2-3% additional at most) added to the fuel mix with the CIA method will give you that, and not slow down the powder appreciably.

Damp the charcoal/Sulfur mix with enough cheap paint store denatured alcohol (NOT the 30% water:70% isopropyl from the drug store!) to make it appear wet, but not so much that it runs out if you grab a handful and squeeze. Don't worry too much if you overdo it, alcohol dries out of the powder easily. Water not so quickly... I used a large stainless steel mixing bowl to hold the fuel/alcohol mix. It needs to be several times the volume of your finished powder-

Dissolve the Potassium nitrate in the minimum amount possible of boiling water. 1 liter of boiling water will dissolve 2,460 grams of Potassium nitrate. Do the math and don't over do the water. Understand that the saturated solution can be HOTTER than the boiling point of pure water, it will scald you very badly if you are careless. Waterproof kitchen mitts are a good thing to wear while handling the hot solution & doing the mixing. I used a large Pyrex measuring cup in a microwave to dissolve nitrate, with a saucer over the top to prevent spatters- But I wasn't married at the time.

*Making BP in HER kitchen is known to be a hazard to YOUR health... By the way, a plastic microwave oven interior coated with dried out Potassium nitrate from the spatters burns quite well. Smells just awful too.

Have a cheap electric hand mixer you got from a yard sale (NOT her mixer!) on hand. I covered all the vents with duct tape to keep alcohol vapors/black powder dust out of the motor.

Rapidly dump the hot water with saturated solution of nitrate into the alcohol damped charcoal and Sulfur mix while beating with the mixer. The alcohol crystalizes the nitrate out of solution FAST, as very tiny crystals that will actually be INSIDE the particles of fuel... The whole mass will quickly become a slightly damp solid IF you have used the absolute minimum of water and alcohol. You will NOT need to squeeze any liquid out if you did this correctly.

*Much of the alcohol will boil out of the mix in your face while you do the mixing- Did I mention you shouldn't be indoors?

*Believe it or not, as soon as you've mixed the dissolved nitrate into the charcoal & Sulfur the powder will BURN, regardless of it being still wet. Take a little bit of the wet powder out and go to a safe distance to light it and prove this to yourself. Don't burn your knuckles, it will burn FAST.

Squeeze the powder into a ball and grate through a coarse screen onto a tray lined with grocery bag Kraft paper in thin layer. Dry in a warm place with a fan blowing over it, I suggest NOT in direct sunlight. Granulate through a coarse screen, sieve the dried grains to select desired mesh sizes.




Here's some information you may find useful or interesting. I suggest you actually buy the Von Maltitz and Sponenburgh books as these are living authors who deserve something for their efforts. If you're broke or don't care, you can download these from the net for free- Tenney Davis has passed on (and is out of copyright), the US Gov't. will be happy you bothered to download (and follow!) the federal explosives laws.

Getting Legal:

http://www.accelix.com/atf/

BATFE "Orange Book" (Federal Explosives Laws & Regulations):

http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...f-p-5400-7.pdf

Ian Von Maltitz, Black Powder Manufacturing, Testing & Optimizing:

http://pyrotechnic.narod.ru/Black_Powder.pdf

Sponenburgh, Ball Milling Theory and Practice:

http://www.rocketsaway.com/pyrotechn...ponenburgh.pdf

Tenney Davis, Chemistry of Powder and Explosives:*

http://library.sciencemadness.org/li...explosives.pdf

[62chevy]

I follow the post and don't even make my own but may someday when a BP rifle comes to the house.

[trooperdan]

Bert, so glad you took the substantial amount of time to make this post! I am a licensed pyro tech in NC, an ex-military EOD guy and handling black powder/fireworks is way more dangerous that handling high explosives! I second the idea to leave out the urine, adds nothing but smell. First rate hardwood charcoal is a requirement for sure! And a legal magazine for storage IS a requirement, a manufacturing license is NOT required if you make BP for yourself, store it legally and don't distribute it. That said, I think it is still prudent to get the manufacturing permit and have a legal magazine for storage... just makes me sleep easier!

[Bert2368]

Glad you liked-

The only hard wood charcoals I found to make fast powder were fruit woods- Apple, peach, cherry. Some Oak charcoals were good for BP rocket fuel where you want to have a pretty spark tail and not blow up the rocket from too fast a fuel.

Black alder is a weed tree in the upper Midwest. It's called "buckthorn" here for some reason. Makes great charcoal for BP.

Willows all work well for BP, as does grape vine. GOEX used to use maple?! DuPont used willow.

Red cedar works surprisingly well too. White pine is good for making sparks with fireworks stars, not so good for strong powder.

[Bert2368]

A few more things about protective gear:

A dust mask is a darn good idea. The charcoal goes up your nose and will give you black boogers for a couple of days... The nitrate and Sulfur aren't good for your sinuses and lungs either.

I assumed everyone has the sense to wear at least a good set of goggles while handling chemicals? In case you didn't think of that, by all means protect your eyes. If I'm working with a big pile of powder or fireworks composition, I would have a clear full face shield AND goggles.

A leather welder's apron, same kind you wear while casting is a nice thing- You DO wear a leather apron while casting, right? You will probably be facing the source of a fireball, every bit helps. Plus it keeps your front from being impregnated with very flammable dust...

I mentioned wearing natural (non static generating non MELTING!) materials above:

Wear no synthetic materials while handling explosives. These may generate static electricity, and having melted plastic all over your 2nd and 3rd degree burns will complicate your treatment in the burn ward. Choose Cotton, wool, leather. None of these continue to burn with a flame after the flame source is removed.

To be clearer: Long sleeved cotton top and bottom. A long sleeved welder's heavy cotton shirt, a T-shirt, and a bandana to protect your neck above the collar. Blue jeans or heavy cotton work pants (Carharts are nice). Boots, not tennis shoes. WASH THE CLOTHES IMMEDIATELY WHEN DONE. They are a fire hazard, you could get a surprise later if you don't.

But what about GLOVES? Shouldn't you wear plastic/rubber gloves, you're handling chemicals! Well, no. If you're working with hands in a pile of fireworks mixture or powder that ignites, those gloves will melt onto your hands in a jiffy.

The black powder ingredients are only mildly toxic, they don't absorb through your skin in any meaningful amount. For handling the boiling hot nitrate solutions, waterproof oven mitts will keep you safe if you slop hot solution on your hands. Call a commercial kitchen supply company if you can't find them at a store near you. For working with your hands in a pile of dry powder, thin suede gloves. They'll actually keep the heat of a flash fire away from your skin long enough to matter, and they never melt onto you. After use, wash them while still on your hands with saddle soap and rinse. Then lather them up a second time but don't rinse, take them off and let them dry with the soap on them. That way you can get your hands into them again...

[phantom15]

This place is unreal.......too many good ideas and not enough time to play.....

[super6]

Bert2368, The safety considerations were on the money, You cannot outrun a fireball.One way or another we will educate.

[omgb]

That's a lot of danger to rub up against just to save a few $$ per pound. If BP ever is taken away from us I might be tempted to try and make up but until then, I'll let the pros take all of the risk.

[Whiterabbit]

That's a lot of danger to rub up against just to save a few $$ per pound.

Reloading is a lot of danger comparatively just to save a few $$ per round. Same with casting. We're all adults here.

[Rustyleee]

Thanks for posting Atom.

[Randy C]

[Desertbuck]

Random thought came to my mind today while making a 1/2lb batch. As I separated the powder from the lead ball boolit tumbling media a little bit of black dust floats into the air as always. Hummm I thought lead boolits, I wander if theres ultra fine lead in the dust I should be worried about! What do you guys think?

[Whiterabbit]

what do I THINK? I think if you have air-float atomized black powder floating in the air in front of your face, with or without lead particles attached, lead exposure is the LAST thing I would be worried about with respect to that cloud!

[SciFiJim]

what do I THINK? I think if you have air-float atomized black powder floating in the air in front of your face, with or without lead particles attached, lead exposure is the LAST thing I would be worried about with respect to that cloud!

I haven't made any, but how can you separate the lead ball from the powder without creating dust? Would dampening the powder work? If so, with what? Distilled water, alcohol?

[Whiterabbit]

dunno. all I am saying is I would have zero concern about lead poisoning when I have a cloud of explosive floating around between my chest and face.

Here's a story. During safety training when I got my first job, we were talking about hazardous gasses. Specifically, Silane, which is pyrophoric. (if you don't know what pyrophoric means, it means combusts in the presence of air, no need for a spark or other ignition source. You release it, and it just burns.) I noticed it was rated as a toxic gas too, so like the wet-behind-the-ear I was, I raised my hand and said "I see silane is toxic, why aren't we having any discussion about that?" The answer was "because by the time we care about the toxicity of silane gas, we've already been blown through the concrete wall of the gas bunker."

It was a lesson in prioritizing hazards.

[Desertbuck]

Im not talkin about a cloud of dust. I add about 2 tbs of water to the the drum to dampen the mix to keep static at bay, to keep the dust cloud from ever forming, and some what damp powder is safer to mill.
But you always have SOME dust when its moved from mill to a bowl for further dampening for processing into pucks. You can hardly see it but when light hits at the perfect angle you can.

[Bert2368]

Even water dropped Lead alloy media wears away in regular use. Yes, the Lead ends up in your BP, and in your lungs when you breathe the smoke. Not too much at any one time maybe, but I'd rather not breathe it. For some OTHER kinds of pyrotechnic mixtures, the Lead contamination could degrade colors or cause unwanted chemical reactions, up to and including KABOOOM!

Back when I made BP rather than buying it by the (insert obscenely large ammount here), my solution was to ballmill only the charcoal, Sulfur and any extra binders such as dextrin or redgum. The Potassium nitrate was only added later in a saturated, boiling hot water solution after the milling process.

The ball mill media I used very hard 1"x1" cylinders made from ceramic (Alumina). It lasted pretty much forever for my uses- Sparking ball mill media? Maybe! Static electricity in the mill jar? Quite definitely, it made the hair on your arms stand up when the plastic mill jar was nearby. Didn't matter because there was never an oxidizer in the mix while milling.

As far as the dust cloud, work outside! ESPECIALLY if it's dust from finished powder! Don't work powder if it's dry/cold enough for static electricity. Wear a dust mask. Clean up religiously after.

One more time:


Making powder is DANGEROUS!



All commercial powder mills are built with the EXPECTATION THEY WILL BLOW UP. Because they will, if used long enough.

Look at the history of the DuPont family. Notice all the dead (mangement level!) people, and blown up mills?

http://www.historypin.com/attach/uid...Powder%20Yards

Google the names of any black powder maker, historical or modern along with "explosion", "deaths", etc. You will find plenty.

After Du Pont sold the last powder mill in the USA to GOEX, there were a series of problems. A lot of you know about the GOEX production moving out of PA, then moving again- The meaty part starts at page 10.

http://www.laflinandrand.com/madmonk/history.pdf

This link is instructive on how NOT to run a BP manufacturing operation.
Never hurry. Never cut corners. Don't count on making tons of money.

[Desertbuck]

Quote(Back when I made BP rather than buying it by the (insert obscenely large ammount here), my solution was to ballmill only the charcoal, Sulfur and any extra binders such as dextrin or redgum. The Potassium nitrate was only added later in a saturated, boiling hot water solution after the milling process.)Quote


I am giving this method a try I have one question though can you allow the slurry to dry sufficiently for a couple of days to allow you to corn or screen it?
I have never tried the cia method it seems like it's probably the safest way to make gunpowder with all your ingredients being saturated with water but I want to avoid using alcohol & losing potassium nitrate from filtering it through a rag to remove excess moisture.

Thank for the information Bert2368 my goal is to do this with as much safety as I possibly can. And I do understand no matter what, it comes with a risk and has its dangers.