Here is the write-up "My homemade black powder"

[HDS]

So I was gonna try and buy some black powder but at the cost of 115 euros per kilo or ~2lbs I decided against it. I googled around and could not find anything that said it'd be illegal to make here, someone said it was legal, so now I have bought 800 grams of airfloat grade willow charcoal and another 900 grams of sulphur. I got access to free 99% KNO3 via my parents farm so in terms of components this powder is gonna cost me about 4 euros a kilo vs 115.

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I've been looking through the various methods and simply cooking up the ingredients in water until you get the right consistency seems like the simplest method to me, then add alcohol (does it have to be isopropyl, what about denatured alcohol). What I see most people do after is corn it before it dries. But it seems to me that what the pros do is make compressed pucks. From what I've understood of the process, compressing it into pucks is what yields higher densities like the storebought stuff. Then you corn it. They smash the pucks with mallets then sift through multiple meshes. I am wondering if you could use an adjustable mill to grind these up into consistent granules?

I don't really understand why the ball mill method should be better than this procedure however? I thought it was because it mixes stuff better than dry mixing with mortar & pestle, but if I use prebought superfine charcoal etc and mix wet it seems to me I should get the same results more or less.

[Blacksmith]

Here is a site that sells BP kits. They also have ball mills and other handy chemicals. Here is the link to their BP page with information on making.

http://www.unitednuclear.com/bp.htm

[wyofool]

I may have missed it, but did anyone come up with the screen sizes for the different grades of powder? Anyone have a source?
I will try this one day, and with the wealth of knowledge in this thread should have an easy time of it. Actually, I made about a pound when I was 13 with just mixing the dry ingredients. Best smoke bomb I have ever made, as I did not think it was ever going out.
OB

Skylighter has BP grades and mesh sizes.

http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/...ize_Charts.asp

[lavenatti]

I don't really understand why the ball mill method should be better than this procedure however? I thought it was because it mixes stuff better than dry mixing with mortar & pestle, but if I use prebought superfine charcoal etc and mix wet it seems to me I should get the same results more or less.

When a wet method is used a good portion of the potassium nitrate dissolves in the liquid. As this mixture dries, the crystals of potassium nitrate that form as they come out of solution are larger than what would be obtained when the ball mill method is used. This is probably the only drawback to the wet method and causes the resultant powder to be slower than what could be obtained with ballmilling.
The smaller the sizes of all the particles and the more intimate the mix the faster the powder will be.
That's not to say you can't make perfectly servicable powder with the wet method.
The "CIA" method calls for dumping a large amount of alcohol into the wet powder. This done to 'crash' the potassium nitrate out of solution quickly and form small crystals as it does so.

[3006guns]

I just tested some of my home made black this afternoon. I used a basic method involving water, not alcohol. The ingredients were all run through a coffee mill individually, including some home made dextrin. They were carefully weighed on a lab scale, wetted and mixed. After drying and screening (approx. 2fg), four 12 gauge shotgun shells were loaded and the first thing I noticed was that, using the same scoop I use for commercial powder, mine occupied far less space when the over powder wad was compressed. Did the grains crumble?

I took my faithful Husqvarna hammer gun out to the range and loaded one barrel. Held it away from my body and pulled the trigger. Now, I had ear muffs on but I suspect they weren't really necessary as the report was something between a mouse fart and the sound of molding cheese. There WAS some recoil.......about what you'd expect from a cap pistol. In other words, it was hardly inspiring. When fired at the ground fifteen feet away, the #7 shot just fell on the ground.

Okay, so what did I do wrong? Well for starters I don't think I incorporated the chemicals well enough. The proportions were correct, but they were mixed while wet for safety (and that's fine) but dry mixing them in a remote ball mill would guarantee proper incorporation. Using just enough liquid to form a cake afterwards would allow "screening" into grains.

Update: I discovered a very simple fact.....according to my research, my home made powder is less dense than commercial. In other words, it takes more of my home made to generate the same pressure as commercial. I just finished a fresh batch and after it dries I'll load it into a couple of 12 ga. shells, but THIS time I'll use a 3 dram charge instead of 2.5 as before. I'll report back after the test shots.

[super6]

The last thing I want to do is hijack this thread. As a fireworker I have resolved the issues of making goex type quality powder. With that said is there any interest in learning how to do it the right way? Some of you have most of it right but not all. I'll admit I did not read through all the posts in this thread but the last few begs for clarifacation. Just let me know. OP, let me know if I,m steppen on feet! Or anyone for that matter.

[waksupi]

Any new knowledge is welcome!

[Rojelio]

By all means, knowledge is power.

[Cosmiceyes]

I just love how much a person can really learn in these forums. You have made the new black powder pistol look like more fun. I can't wait to take over the kitchen. Well maybe just near the kitchen. lol Thanks for sharing! 's

[bbs428]

As a new member here, I have been going thru all the threads that spark my interests. This is one thread that, to me, was very interesting. So after I read a bunch on the topic, I made some BP!
I wanted to share my experience with you all, so here we go!

Before I start, I should say this is only for info only. The following experiments were done in an open shed out in the country. All Safety precautions were observed.

I ordered my supplies from Phil's General Store. http://www.ihaveadotcom.com and got started. I used Phil's recipe for BP which you can find at the same web site. Supplies came in quick and were of top notch quality.
Got a dual, 3lb. rock tumbler from Harbor Freight on sale. From Wal-Mart I purchased a digital scale, a large Pyrex bowl, a 5 pack of cheap plastic bowls, Two, 8 in. med and fine screens and 2 cheap spatula's.

Hardest part of the whole process was breaking down the willow lump charcoal into bits that the tumbler could digest well. These bits should be half as small as your little fingernail or smaller.
I ended up using a large left over coffee plastic can. Placed plenty of .60 lead balls in it. Then filled it 3/4 full with the willow charcoal. Got a good workout and in no time flat it was ready for the tumbler.
Put some tape around the lid to reinforce it and to seal in the dust as you really don't need to have it fly off as you shake, rattle and roll all those lead balls and charcoal!

The BP you end up with is dependent on how fine you can get the charcoal. The KN03 and Sulfur was already in powder form. That being said, I still tumbled the green mix for about 2-3 hours. Even though the charcoal had been tumbled over-night.

A critical point in production was how much distilled water to use. I used the 20% suggested in the recipe and ended up with a gel ball that refused to dry up and was horrible to work with. I eventually got it "corned" but it was a real hassle. Once that was accomplished, it dried out fine.

As to the distilled water - The next batch I added half as much, a little at a time, and was rewarded with a ball of modeling clay. This makes it much more manageable and goes thru the screen nicely.

I made a small batch of 4 oz. initially and once I had that under my belt, I corrected my mistakes and made another 8 oz. batch.

I used a large aluminum smooth bottomed cookie sheet like pan with sides to dry the powder under a halogen light. I would have put it out in the sun but it's been raining.
I then separated the grains into fine and med with the screens and placed in separate plastic bowls and labeled them.

Lessons learned, not in any specific order:

1. Use Safety gear - gloves, apron and eye protection. I use a clear grinders shield to protect my face and eyes.
2. Messy! Charcoal dust goes everywhere.
3. Be organized! Cross contamination of products can and will happen if your not careful. Keep the KN03 in a separate location
4. Once the green mix is made extra caution is needed! Think safety.
5. Place all chemicals in a safe separate location before you dry and screen the final product. I work with less than 1/2 lb. at a time...just in case.
6. Be prepared to work! I'm retired and have a lot of time to putter about.
7. DO NOT use your kitchen utensils! LOL!
8. Large Pyrex bowl and the spatulas came in very handy for mixing.
9. Be very careful of mix ratios. Measure thrice, mix once.

With all the stuff I bought (including shipping) my price for this batch is about $10.50 per lb. Once these supplies are exhausted my cost will drop to under $3.00 per lb.

I was pleasantly surprise that my homemade BP equaled and surpassed my store bought powder. Turned out very powerful, smoky and a bit on the messy side - but very acceptable none the less.

If you shoot a lot and/or like to do stuff like this, then it's all worth the time and hassle. Another plus is that if you enjoy fireworks - your well on your way to make more cool stuff!

Cheers.

[super6]

First post of more to come. Tools as follows, A good ball mill at least 6 lb capacity, A 55 gallon steel drum and a 20 gallon steel drum. Making charcoal is not difficult. A 20 ton hydraulic jack and a H frame assembly to make a press. The chemicals are potassium nitrate ( flowable green house grade) rubber makers sulfur both of these can be procured from http://www.ihaveadotcom.com As posted above. As for wood there are dozens of willow varieties all of which will be of different consistencies. We want things to be the same every time in our firearms thats why goex choose maple for their offerings as it was consistent, not the best, but consistent. I work with white pine 2x4s as I get a better product. No spruce pine will work in place of the white pine. This process will not use a drop of water. I will post more in the days ahead if there is still interest.

[super6]

sorry double post.

[Rojelio]

I will post more in the days ahead if there is still interest

Yes, please continue.

[bbs428]

This process will not use a drop of water. I will post more in the days ahead if there is still interest.

Looking forward to reading your method of BP making super6.

I have read that white pine charcoal made a "hotter powder." That's great cause I have a whole stack of cut-offs and a few steal drums to boot. Never crossed my mind that the willow charcoal would be inconsistent from bag to bag. Point well taken.

Got the 20 ton press, so am I interested? You bet!

[super6]

Now that you have the tools, lets get started! Making the charcoal.. Start by cutting the bottom out of the 55 gallon drum, remove the bungs from the other side. An acetylene torch is handy at this point. let the cut lid stay in the bottom. Your gonna be building a roaring fire in this drum, Burn all the junk wood you have as you will not be harvesting any of it. The goal is to get a quarter barrel of red coal. The 20 gallon drum will be filled with the white pine 2x4s. You will need to cut, split the wood so that 2x2s are in the drum. Measure the 20 gallon from top to botton and and cut the 2x2s so you will have 3 independant layers in the drum. Pack tite but not so tite as to have to force them.Most of the 20 gallon drums come with snap ring type lids for easy removal. Drill 5 quarter" holes in the top of this lid. The gasses will be escapeing through these. Once all that is done its time to cook your coal! this is a 6 beer job. After you set the little drum in the big one, fill the empty space in the big drum with more junk wood, The whole ideal is to keep flames around the little drum. Once things get started you will see lots of smoke pouring from the holes you drilled, Soon little jets of flame will appear, Let this happen till the flames stop, about 4 beers into it. Now at this point the flames have settled down in the big drum and no more flames in the little drum, leave the little one there for 20 minutes or so. Using heavy gloves, Pull the little drum out and stick the lid side in the dirt. This will stop any air from comming into the drum. Let it cool over night. Go sleep the beer off! more to come!

[super6]

By now the lids have been popped off all those 20 gallon drums! That black blue shiny coal is Just what the doctor ordered. Go ahead and snap a few pieces into, Black all the way through? good.Now bust it up in a turkey cooker pot or something similar.
Now, A bit about ball mills. No matter what you choose as a ball mill there are certain criteria that must be followed, Use common sense, Your neighbours will not be understanding if you blow their house to pieces nor will the police.
All milling must be done in a remote location. Use an extention cord to stop and start the mill, If it blows and your standing next to it , Not pretty. The optimal load of your mill is as follows, Fill half full with your media lead balls or cylinders are best. I use a 8" jar and 3/4" media. Add your ingrediants till you have 1/4 of the jar left empty
The rotational speed should be 70 R.P.Ms
Or there abouts. 4 to 6 hours latter, You have excellent green mix. Use 75/15/10 as your base mix.75 being the nitrate, 15 your coal. This is the Waltham Abbey mix,

[super6]

This is where I have some problems with miss information being passed from forum to forum. No powder for a gun should be used unless its corned. Granulated powder is fine for fireworks. Phil Will tell you thats what his workup was about. So put your liquids and screens away for now. We will continue, If Its O.K.

[waksupi]

Just keep going.

[mold maker]

A 20 gal drum of charcoal will will make a serious batch of finished product. It really fluffs up when milled to fine powder. Be prepared for a big mess if your not careful.
That stuff will cause black boogers two days later. Not to mention the neighbors laundry on the line.
Just saying.

[super6]

Just about 10 to 15 lbs. LOL. I'll Have some tips on how to avoid the mess later!