Here is the write-up "My homemade black powder"

[ofitg]

I am giving this method a try I have one question though can you allow the slurry to dry sufficiently for a couple of days to allow you to corn or screen it?
I have never tried the cia method it seems like it's probably the safest way to make gunpowder with all your ingredients being saturated with water but I want to avoid using alcohol & losing potassium nitrate from filtering it through a rag to remove excess moisture.

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Desertbuck, if you have a copy of VanMaltitz's book, Blackpowder Manufacturing, Testing & Optimizing, he describes a precipitation method used by the Chinese over a thousand years ago - no alcohol, just enough boiling water water to dissolve the KNO3 - as the "soup" cools down to room temperature, within seconds it turns into a sludge (eg, ketchup consistency). No need to squeeze the water out, just let the sludge dry.

[Desertbuck]

Thank you very much for the fast reply ofitg. No unfortunately I do not have a copy VanMaltitz's book slowly gathering all the information. Replies: like this are much appreciated thank you I will keep an eye out for that book so sounds like something I should get.

[Whiterabbit]

Desertbuck, if you have a copy of VanMaltitz's book, Blackpowder Manufacturing, Testing & Optimizing, he describes a precipitation method used by the Chinese over a thousand years ago - no alcohol, just enough boiling water water to dissolve the KNO3 - as the "soup" cools down to room temperature, within seconds it turns into a sludge (eg, ketchup consistency). No need to squeeze the water out, just let the sludge dry.

Does this method eliminate the need to compression mold a cake? Or is that step still needed?

[trooperdan]

DesertBuck, don't be too confident about the powder when it is wet, it will still burn! In fact damp powder seems to burn faster than dry almost!

[ofitg]

Does this method eliminate the need to compression mold a cake? Or is that step still needed?

The powder is not dense, it's similar to pre-1800 factory powder, kind of soft and crumbly. If you want to duplicate post-1800 factory powder, with dense & hard little granules, the compression step is still needed.

[super6]

DesertBuck, I have a copy I will gladly sell you. ( VanMaltitz's) spell (Ian von Maltitz) Make me an offer!

[Desertbuck]

[QUOTE=super6;2663327]DesertBuck, I have a copy I will gladly sell you. ( VanMaltitz's) spell (lan von Maltitz) Make me an offer!




Thank you but I was given a digital copy.

[super6]

Ian made money...?

[SciFiJim]

Thank you but I was given a digital copy.

Google the title. It is freely available online as a .pdf

[Whiterabbit]

The powder is not dense, it's similar to pre-1800 factory powder, kind of soft and crumbly. If you want to duplicate post-1800 factory powder, with dense & hard little granules, the compression step is still needed.

What are the ramifications of not compressing? Is there a modern equivalence? 3F? 2F?

For us muzzleloaders, can we skip compression and just adjust the volume of the charge till we get the same bullet speed as we developed for accuracy with commercial powder?

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My goal is to simplify the process as much as possible. If I can buy the $45 kit from skylighter and a ball mill from harbor freight, add my own hardcast roundballs, a kitchen screen, and have enough material and tooling to make 1/4 or 1/3 lb batches of Holy Black for my muzzleloader, I'll be on cloud 9. skipping compression, especially if it makes "corning" difficult, is something I wouldn't mind simplifying/eliminating.

But only if a viable option.

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Looks like the skylighter method uses dextrin as a binder, I just add hot water and go. Great! But it means I need screens, I suppose. They are expensive from skylighter! Any source for less expensive 20 and 40 or 50 mesh screens? (3F)

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And since I am asking 20 questions, I may as well do this one: IF I consider the precipitation method via hot water, so I can avoid ball milling the KNO3, is the "ball milling" portion considered "safe"? In other words, can I run large batches in the ball mill, or mill many batches of the pre-KNO3 mix and store that, ready to be mixed with the KNO3 in water? Allowing me to focus on safety only once I start involving the KNO3?

in other words again, if I ball mill without KNO3, can I ball mill in my garage?

[SSGOldfart]

yep good ideal "I think we have a sticky here. "

[Desertbuck]

Well my boiled meal powder finally got dry enough to make pucks, I made one! Very disappointing, it crumbled very easily and I could see very big crystals of potassium nitrate. Back to the drawing board.
Just a refresher as to what my intention by changing my methods is. One safety, two to minimize lead dust contaminationon. To cut back on the lead contamination, I am going to take 9mm casings fill them with lead and use them as my grinding tumbling media. Mill charcoal sulfur, potassium nitrate separately (for safety) till they are a fine powder, then I might try mixing the three using wooden balls (for safety) as the tumbling media for short time. Than corn the meal powder as normal.

[Desertbuck]

What are the ramifications of not compressing? Is there a modern equivalence? 3F? 2F?

For us muzzleloaders, can we skip compression and just adjust the volume of the charge till we get the same bullet speed as we developed for accuracy with commercial powder?

--------------------

My goal is to simplify the process as much as possible. If I can buy the $45 kit from skylighter and a ball mill from harbor freight, add my own hardcast roundballs, a kitchen screen, and have enough material and tooling to make 1/4 or 1/3 lb batches of Holy Black for my muzzleloader, I'll be on cloud 9. skipping compression, especially if it makes "corning" difficult, is something I wouldn't mind simplifying/eliminating.

But only if a viable option.

-------------------

Looks like the skylighter method uses dextrin as a binder, I just add hot water and go. Great! But it means I need screens, I suppose. They are expensive from skylighter! Any source for less expensive 20 and 40 or 50 mesh screens? (3F)

-------------------

And since I am asking 20 questions, I may as well do this one: IF I consider the precipitation method via hot water, so I can avoid ball milling the KNO3, is the "ball milling" portion considered "safe"? In other words, can I run large batches in the ball mill, or mill many batches of the pre-KNO3 mix and store that, ready to be mixed with the KNO3 in water? Allowing me to focus on safety only once I start involving the KNO3?

in other words again, if I ball mill without KNO3, can I ball mill in my garage?

Yes screened powder will work just fine in muzzle loaders, however you are going to find that you have to use a lot of it volume wise anyhow to match the velocities you get with factory powder.
And yes it is safer to mill the ingredients separately. I personally don't see a problem doing that in your garage so long as you use common sense! But making your own gun powder is never %100 safe! You are always taking a risk! But if you have taken the time to educate yourself with a good grasp on what you are dealing with you should be fine. Also pay attention very close attention to that little voice in the back of your mind, if it doesn't feel right stop what you're doing!!! And change what you are doing until that little voice is happy.

[ole single shooter]

I made my first batch of meal powder explicitly following directions here before I found this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Fn12MnZcs The burn rate looked good so I started a test with a 45cal long rifle using 40 grain load under a lead ball . The report was sharp and crisp and a nice nudge for the shoulder .I only had time for two more shots at 50 grains and 60 grains. I am very satisfied so far. I'll still work my way up a bit more. I am making a trip to a big box with the son tmw and may get a crono .
Has anyone used the meal powder in larger calibers? I have a 50 , 54 ,and a 20 gauge trade gun with Curly Gostomaskie's Northwest hardware. I have some concern that the meal powder might compress more than desirable , especially for the .54 and .600 bore. Any input would be appreciated. I do like the well explained cook method here and may try it in the future.

[wrongway]

Happy Birthday DesertBuck

[Lee]

Just a thought, if not already mentioned. The ladies hobby "quilting" plastic mesh might perhaps be a perfect screen material for the wet powder screening.
Just sayin ......

[Whiterabbit]

well, I just found that grainger sells mesh in every size for $5 a 12x12 sheet from 4mesh to 200+ mesh. In stainless steel.

So, I'll probably go with that.

[Whiterabbit]

Yes screened powder will work just fine in muzzle loaders, however you are going to find that you have to use a lot of it volume wise anyhow to match the velocities you get with factory powder.
And yes it is safer to mill the ingredients separately. I personally don't see a problem doing that in your garage so long as you use common sense! But making your own gun powder is never %100 safe! You are always taking a risk! But if you have taken the time to educate yourself with a good grasp on what you are dealing with you should be fine. Also pay attention very close attention to that little voice in the back of your mind, if it doesn't feel right stop what you're doing!!! And change what you are doing until that little voice is happy.

Then I have one last dumb question. Would it not be a reasonable idea then, to screen tighter? rather than screening to 20 mesh to make 3F, screen at 30 mesh to make smaller pieces. This should increase the mass of powder for a measured velocity. Or in short, allow me to decrease the volume of powder measured needed to match velocity with factory powder.

Yes? or no?

[benellinut]

You guys may already know about this website, they sell all kinds of supplies to make BP and fireworks. They have some screens sheets and pre-made sifters, prices seem high to me but then this is all new to me.
http://www.skylighter.com/mall/tools.asp

[Desertbuck]

Then I have one last dumb question. Would it not be a reasonable idea then, to screen tighter? rather than screening to 20 mesh to make 3F, screen at 30 mesh to make smaller pieces. This should increase the mass of powder for a measured velocity. Or in short, allow me to decrease the volume of powder measured needed to match velocity with factory powder.

Yes? or no?

The problem I think you may run into with that small of a grain is it may burn really dirty. I have never screened powder that small my self.