Lyman 311291 Unusable in My Winchester 30-30

[HARRYMPOPE]

the 31141 is the same as the 311291 except for nose shape.When they introduced the 31141 i cast a few and was able to actually drop them in a 311291 mold and the body fit perfectly!Current "grinds" vary ,but that's where 31141/041 the design was derived.
The 30-30 has no throat at all,just a 15 deg taper from the end of the case.It causes problems sometimes.A nice 1.5 deg throater works wonders to clean this up,A 30 carbine reamer will also do the trick.

HMP

[hiram]

Paul Matthews once wrote about sizing the nose only of a 45-70 bullet in a 44 die. Then push the bullet out of the die from the top. Do you have the means to do domething like that--maybe a pistol taper crimp die would do it???

[peerlesscowboy]

the 31141 is the same as the 311291 except for nose shape. .........

Isn't the front driving band on the '291 full diameter? The front driving band on the '041 is undersize @ .304". I suspect it was designed that way so it'd fit that short standard .30-30 throat? My impression FWIW is that the Ly311291 is sort of a generic .30 caliber bullet where-as the '041 was designed specifically for the .30-30.

John C. Saubak

[HARRYMPOPE]

Isn't the front driving band on the '291 full diameter? The front driving band on the '041 is undersize @ .304". I suspect it was designed that way so it'd fit that short standard .30-30 throat? My impression FWIW is that the Ly311291 is sort of a generic .30 caliber bullet where-as the '041 was designed specifically for the .30-30.

John C. Saubak

Some 311041's might not have the reduced band .The 311466 is another that sometimes has the ft band or two .305 others are the full diameter (.311 or .314) all the way to the end.The reduced band version shoots much better.I'll dig up my 31141s and see if i can measure a few to check differences.The one i use most is without the ft reduced band.(middle 1980's vintage)
i agree the '41 is a designed 30-30 bullet and is also a better all around bullet than the '291 in about any 30 caliber.Many 311291's have noses that are small as .297.They shoot Ok at lower velocity,but much above 1400 teh go astray.My experience anyhow.

HMP

[45r]

I think he would be better off getting a rcbs 150 or 180GC for his winchester and selling the fat nose 311291.He would have no problem selling it since a lot of us would want a fat nose for a micro groove barreled marlin.

[26Charlie]

Following SS4070 idea, you can temporarily modify the nose punch - with candle wax. Just drip it in, size a bullet, and the excess will squeeze out. When you go back to sizing the bullet it was cut for, all the wax will squeeze out. I existed for years with just a 311413 top punch for half a dozen .30 caliber moulds, being then a poor teenager.

[NHlever]

I have the same problem with a Marlin 336 TS 30-30 I just bought. Like my two 35 Remington's the chamber has no throat, and most of the molds I have produce boolits that just don't work in it. I shot a bunch of the Lee 358-158-RF today out of one of my Marlins, but closing the lever the last quarter inch has just a bit too much resistance for it to be a practice load. Fortunately, all my .30 caliber cast bullets work fine in the old family Winchester 94. I have a Lee 150 ..30 caliber flat nose mold, and one for the 170 FN, and both of them produce bullets that have slightly smaller nose bearing areas so I'll have to work with those. Hopefully, we both will find something that runs smoothly for practice, etc. I have a SAMMI min. chambering reamer set for the .35 Remington so I may look at that to see if it has a throat reaming section, and maybe give that a try in the .35's.

[lcclower]

are supposed to be .311 throat, .3015 bore and .3085 groove, my RCBS mold with WW makes .302 nose and I size them .310 with a gas check.
Also casting the same bullet in softest lead i can muster to .302 in a Buckshot push-through die and wrap to .311 +/- with notebook paper. Still working on the paperpatch thing. LC

[cabezaverde]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but it seems relevant.

Does this amount of engraving on the nose seem about right? Bullet is an NOE 311 flat nose. Rifle is a Marlin microgroove. Action seems to close fine.

[MOA]

Or,
1. You could take a casting of throat an chamber and see what your dealing with.
2. Hand chamber once fired neck sized only empty cases into gun to check for resistance.
3. Hand chamber empty full length sized cases into gun to check for resistance.
4. All unsized empty cases tested NOT to have been fired in another rifles chamber.
5. Send casting to Veral at LBT and have him make you a custom mold to fit YOUR guns chamber.

Hope these suggestions help.

[claude]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but it seems relevant.

As long as the lever closes fully without undo force, that is fine, the rub comes when you have to force the lever, after awhile it can bend and start flopping open after every shot. I had a Marlin for a spell, that is about the amount of engraving I was looking for.

[John Boy]

Also notice the deep ring around the ogive. That's my RCBS seating plug, designed for spitzers.

Fill the seating plug with hot glue - spit on the ogive - twist in the warm glue - cut excess off and the seating plug will eliminate the rings on your 311291

[MT Chambers]

No one likes the Star sizer more than I and thats why I have 3 of them, however I have to nose size only many diff. bullets esp. in .30 cal. and the Lyman/RCBS does this (nose sizing) best.

[OverMax]

Have a 1937 carbine. Tried Lymans 291s and never had much luck in accuracy either. I then bought a Ranch Dog designed 041 profile. It shot so well just gas check alone that I decided to try shooting the same boolit paper patched without a check. After allot of experimenting in 2016s summer months. I now won't shoot anything but the NOE ranch dog boolit out of my 80 yr. old gal.

[FergusonTO35]

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but it seems relevant.

Does this amount of engraving on the nose seem about right? Bullet is an NOE 311 flat nose. Rifle is a Marlin microgroove. Action seems to close fine.

It looks good to me, as long as the action closes easily and unfired cartridges extract easily you should be fine. I shoot the Lee C309-150-RF in two Marlins, a Mossberg 464, and a Winny 94. I find that these boolits stick in the throat of all rifles except the 94 when seated and crimped in the groove. This not only makes the lever hard to close but can raise pressure and shorten brass life. Seating a bit shorter, to 2.420 solves it. The cartridges chamber as easily as factory j-word rounds and shoot great. I crimp with the Lee FCD and the boolit appears to be held quite snugly, never had one come loose or get pushed into the case.

[rintinglen]

Hummm.. Sound like you have a barrel throat that is way short. I have never know a Winchester 94 to do that, but they have been made for many years and I suppose there have been variations.

I have a 1935 production Remington 141 in 30 Remington with the same issue. A 30 caliber throating reamer lengthened the throat and now all if good with the 311291.

That is what I had to do to a Theodore Roosevelt Commemorative I had to get it to shoot any cast boolit over 95 grains.