NOE 311-165 question

[justingrosche]

Im wondering what OAL some folks are using with this Boolit in 30-30 Win.. With a seating depth of .505 the Boolit is just touching the rifling and I'm seated past my crimp groove by .050
The Boolit is sized to .308. Rifle is a Marlin Micro groove.

[btroj]

I found that in my Marlin micro groove I needed to trim the brass back a bit to keep in the crimp groove and not be hard into the lands. Not a bunch, just 10 or 20 thousandths.
The nose on this bullet is just a hair fatter than the design by RD and it shows in how long the round can be before hitting the lands in some guns.
Trim your brass to what your rifle wants and go shoot. This is an awesome bullet.
But are you sizing to .308? That is awful small for a microgroove. I size mine to .312 and have good results. Most microgroove guns like a fat bullet and .308 is a skinny cast bullet for any 30 cal rifle. This might be a bigger problem for you than the crimp groove issue. You are facing the prospect of mining lead from your barrel and poor accuracy. I would look into your bullet diameter and what you really want.

[excess650]

I have the NOE and HAD the Ranch Dog version. My RD cast .314" vs the .311" of the NOE, so the NOE has a smaller diameter nose. Seated hard into the rifling, I'm also past the crimp groove in my 336CB and 1935 vintage Savage 99 carbine. Neither of these are microgroove, and that is what the boolit was designed for.

Justin,
Seat 'em to touch or just off, and don't bother crimping. Your sized diameter does sound too small.

[justingrosche]

I guess I had too many #'s swimming through my head. Yes, sized .311 not .308.
BTROJ: Thanks for the trimming advice, I hadnt thought of that. These were once fired cases, so they hadnt been clipped yet.

excess650: So the neck tension is enough to keep them from "Prairie Doggin'" inside the case when loaded through the gate?
Nothing worse than a magazine or action full of powder.LOL
Perhaps a Lee fact crimp for this one, if I crimp at all.
Thanks Guys.
Justin

[btroj]

I use a light crimp. Just enough to fold the mouth into the crimp groove. Neck tension should hold em other than that.
I much prefer to use a crimp die after seating. I think it deforms the bullets less. I use a redding profile crimp die, sort of a cross between a standard crimp and a taper crimp.
Give those a shot with 16 to 17 gr of 2400. Shoots well for me, have used it a lot for lever action silhouette. No trouble on the 200 yard rams at all.

[justingrosche]

Is this typical of what you guys see in loading these? I am not used to seeing such a large diameter nose. This is my first custom other than 2 NEI rifle molds that I have yet to load with.

[btroj]

That is how mine look. I make them as long as possible without jamming into the lands. I want to be able to easily close the action but don't want to trim the brass any more than required.
That big fat nose is part of what makes it such a good hunting bullet. Cast them so they are hard enough to drive hard yet expand and hold together and you will ruin the day of many a deer.

[justingrosche]

I cast these with #2 duplicate, so either the plain based or the gas checked would hold together well enough. There seated out at what I think would be the max. Any farther I won't be able to shut the lever without like you said, jamming it into the lands,and compromising the ability to close the bolt.

[excess650]

I don't crimp, and find that a couple of thousandths neck tension will prevent movement. A .311" boolit in a case expanded to .308"-.309" should be plenty tight. Try a few and see.

[btroj]

Sounds like you are good to go.

[justingrosche]

Thank you gentlemen.
Justin

[btroj]

Be sure to let us know how they work out for you.

[geargnasher]

My Savage 219 won't even come close to chambering these when crimped in the groove of trimmed-to-spec cases, but my Marlin Microgroove gobbles them up like candy. I have firelapped the Marlin, so there might be a slight bit of throat erosion there.

What sort of loadings and velocities are you guys using for the PB version?

Gear

[excess650]

What sort of loadings and velocities are you guys using for the PB version?

Gear

I haven't had much opportunity to do testing with the weather not cooperating.

[Shakey Jakey]

I just loaded one for a test and it engraves pretty bad in my 1951 Winchester 94. I do use the LEE FCD though. Can I shorten the OAL to the point of just touching then crimp in front of the groove and be OK?

[geargnasher]

Shakey, that's never a good idea in a tube magazine. You want the case mouth tucked up under a band so the boolit can't be shoved back in the case. Like was mentioned above, trim your cases until a "dummy" round will chamber with the boolit nose just barely touching the lands, and crimp in the groove. It's not like the .30-30 case doesn't have enough neck!

If you just used the FCD to swage the case mouth and form a new crimp groove in the boolit where you want it (which it will do, btw), then that displaced lead has to go somewhere, and it will likely go to making the boolit a bit longer, probably toward the nose, exacerbating your problem.

Gear

[Shakey Jakey]

And, from my understanding, it creates a new problem when the base of the bullet is extended inside the neck. So...it seems a bit of a cobble to use this bullet under these circumstances (but I'll try it).

[btroj]

Don't worry about the base of the bullet being a tad below the bottom of the neck. I have shot lots of rounds like that with no problem. I think this is another of the ole bit a of knowledge that are passed from generation to generation with no real data to back it up. Sort of like microgrooves don't handle lead well.
Trim the cases so you can seat in the crimp groove. Trust me, all will be fine. My 335 is happy that I did. I am happy too as the round cycle smoothly.

Brad

[geargnasher]

Kinda reminds me of the story about the new husband asking his bride why she cut off the end of the roast before cooking it, "because my mother always did it that way" being the answer, and that was the same answer her mother and grandmother had, too. Come to find out her grandmother still had her great-grandmother's only roast pan in her attic, and no one had bothered to find out until now that the reason the whole thing started was that the pan was so small, the end had to be cut off the roast to make it fit!

Gear

[btroj]

And that Gear is why I don't like the "rules" in acting or shooting cast. Nobody knows why they came about or when, they are just the rules.

Great example.

Brad