My homemade black powder

[partsproduction]

I wished I'd have read more caerfully Indian Joe, I read in one account of a manufacturer that they mixed with up to 7% moisture, not sure what the 7% was of though, 7% of ambient atmospheric moisture or 7% of mix volume or weight. The idea was that it could not detonate with a small amount of water in it while mixing.
Nothing lost though, if it's clumped I can dry it out and do it dryer. a tablespoon is very little water for the volume.
I've been reading so much the last few days that I can't say which article I was reading, but thinking it was of the rebel powder works, but even if that is the article I'm not sure which phase of tumbling it was, pre-tumbling the separate components or the whole mixture, and maybe they mixed damp and then dried before pressing.

BTW, I chickened out and shut her down for the night. OH YEAH! Someone somewhere was saying they checked tumbling occasionally to see that it wasn't too dry. Hmmm.

[Fly]

Well here is my take in wetting meal powder while ball milling. I,m afraid you may find when you open your jar
the meal powder will be caked to side of tumbler or in a huge ball. Here in Okla it can become very humid from time to
time. My experience on humid days my meal powder does as decried as above.

Fly

[Fly]

Gee Joe I,m flattered. I have been doing this a long time. But I have had some very good teachers myself.
I started making back powder years ago when I got into pyrotechnics (making fireworks). But before that
in the late 1970's I was in Muzzle loaders & loved black powder shooting as much as anything I have ever done.

To make this as short as I can. When black powder became hard to find locally, I tried using the powder I was making
for my fire works. It worked yes & No. I kept at it for a long time. As time went on I had very good powder. But I,m
learning things from many of you now. That's the nature of this hobby. The more we learn the safer & better powder
we make. I do not want anyone to think that I think I know it all. That's the last thing I want to do. I just like helping
newbies & make it safe & cut the learning curve for new guys.

Joe is spot on when he said it is not that complicated. We are here to help each other.

Thanks Joe for the kind words! Fly

[partsproduction]

The ball tumbler turned the components into a dust so fine it's like a solid that falls apart when touched. I took the mix out after the no moisture advice and put it under a heat lamp to dry it out. Tomorrow I hope to press it with the motor driven hydraulic press. The press is a 90 ton but the motor and pump only put out about 5 tons when the relief valve let's it pass.
Speaking earlier of crushing between rolls, I have a gear driven hand roll that jewelers use to turn cast rod into sheet, perhaps silver or gold. The opening is variable up to a max of about 5/16". The rolls are steel and smooth, but I don't foresee much possibility of sparks as this will be rolled slowly.
The advantage I see in that is that the puck won't be crushed below a certain size. I could also use the hand operated part of the hydraulic press to make sure the powder isn't crushed below a certain size.
My concept is to break it up, sift it in a screen and run larger pieces through again, either with careful use of the press or the rolling mill.
The hope I have is that smaller partials and dust will be minimized, and a high percentage of it turned into 2FG and 3FG.
I have some elephant brand powder that must be 30 years old, and looking at both that and Goex under magnification the elephant brand grains are much more rounded, and appear to be coated lightly with graphite, which I don't see on the Goex. What if any are the advantages of graphite?
Also, I assume the elephant powder is tumbled to make it more rounded, fine if one is making tons at a time but that would increase fine particles which I want to minimize.
The goal is to make as much as I want and give to friends IF it is as good or better than commercial BP.

[Whiterabbit]

how thick are you guys compressing your pucks? I'm using fly's compression die @ 2"

I have two ways to run it.

1. I use a craft paper puncher to punch 2" circles of wax paper and spoon in 1 tbsp of air-float, lay a paper down, 1 tbsp, paper, 1 tbsp, paper, etc.
2. Dump like 5 tbps in there and stomp it.

the first way gives me, per cycle in the press, 4-6 thin pucks. The second way gives me one thick puck.

The thick puck seems to make harder powder, which makes me think the powder quality will be better. The thinner powder is MUCH MUCH easier to deal with in grinding, but makes me wonder if I did not drive out as much moisture as the thicker puck.

I guess I am asking, if you make thick pucks, how do you deal with the initial grind before the coffee mill? I'm using a mortar and pestle, it's just not good enough (I need a hammer, it's tedious). If you make thin pucks, how do you keep production up? do you just press one at a time and deal with a very slow process?

[swamp]

I make thick(3/8) pucks. Leave under compression about 1 hour. When they are dry. I break up with pliers. With practice I can get most of it the right size for the grinder.
swamp

[Whiterabbit]

Do you believe 1 hr compression is needed? That takes a LONG time even @ 3/8" thick to fill a can of powder.

[swamp]

I usually am doing something else to fill the wait time. Along with keeping the pressure on. Sometimes the pressure lets up. It is probably not necessary to pressure for an hour, but I think it helps with the density. I use an 8-ton press.
swamp

[Fly]

You see this is what I have been talking about in you guys trying all these different ways of doing things.
I question some, but the ones I question may work like a charm. I have used graphite in the past. I had
hit & miss ignition problems using it. I know it makes the grains flow better for sure. Maybe I added to much,
cause I have heard others say it worked for them.

I have read the British used graphite for a time in the 1800,s but stopped after having ignition problems also.
When I read that I never tried again. I think polishing your powder as the Swiss do it best, IMOHOP. Keep us
posted on what you come up with on the graphite. As I said some have told me it worked for them. We are all
still learning.
Fly

[Texantothecore]

Tile nippers from Harbor Freight work extremely quickly to cut a puck down to a size that will fit into a grinder. Cheap too.
Basically a pliers with blades.

[partsproduction]

You see this is what I have been talking about in you guys trying all these different ways of doing things.

No, I don't see that being the case here , I simply asked about tumbling powder and the use of graphite. I haven't "tried" it although I do believe that businesses that make tons of powder per year have good reasons for what they do, so the question that comes out of it is why? Why do some tumble, why do some use graphite etc. What is the benefit?

Also, there are many ways to do things to arrive at the same result, the efficiencies of the process are the differences that matter. No one is trying to say that anyone else doesn't know anything (I've read that knowledge puffs up).

To me experimentation is not a bad thing, I take the ideas of others and draw my own conclusions, which doesn't mean I think others are wrong. In fact, I'm hesitant to experiment and waste time, so I listen and ask questions.
The best ideas are the ones no else ever thought of but that work well, and the only way they are discovered is when people experiment on their own, but I study what others have proven works without promising to do exactly what they did.

[Fly]

What crawled up your butt & died. WE just try to help one another. That's it bud. This Thread was formed years ago & it has helped many.
I hope it continues. But with people as you it won't. Have a nice day.

Fly

[partsproduction]

The most doubtful process it seems to me is that of turning the compressed solid into granules of a specific size. I'm sure using the big end of a baseball bat or a hand press roller (hammer?) will work but what percentage of the particles will be a specific desirable size?

How much of the powder is too small (Assuming the desired size is FFg or FFFg). The video I added earlier of a geared crush roll machine seems like the best way to me, FWIW, to crush only larger particles smaller.
It has several important features, 7075 aluminum alloy rolls, not much chance of sparking there, and the 7075 alloy is hard enough to not wear out quickly, these rolls are ribbed to pull the solids between them, and the two rolls are "timed" to each other. Also, the crush distance is adjustable.
As to the rest, what happens to the product after the crushing, it seems pretty straightforward to me, grading for size and re-crushing larger pieces, collecting smaller powder for re-pressing and re-crushing.
Not everyone can make such a rolling mill nor justify the effort if they could, so finding a similar method using an "off the shelf" machine or even another method that limits the distance between the crushing elements (Again, off the shelf), would be ideal. All the above is just conjecture, but I have read that industry uses such rolling mills to crush solids into granules.

[partsproduction]

FLY, you read something into text that the writer (me) never intended. I'm sorry you took it wrong, but "You see this is what I've been talking about" seemed too harsh to me, and I tried to gently respond that I hadn't "tried" the things I asked about.

[Fly]

Don't worry I not posting again on Cast Boolits . It,s not your post that made my mind up. After years & 1,940 post it is time to go.
I hope everyone here well.

Fly

[swheeler]

Cabin fever?

[partsproduction]

Aw heck, whatever I said I'm sorry. I can do my experiments and production without causing troubles here.

See you all later, keep yer powder dry!

[Texantothecore]

Before you leave a question.
I am using a dessicator (160 degrees) to dry my pucks for 24 hours before grinding but all I am getting is powder. Most of the other successful producers allow the pucks to dry in air. Is it possible to overly dry the powder?
I beginning to think that getting them to ambient hydration levels may be more productive. Any experience with this?
My next series of test will be to dry it in the dessicator, break into grinder friendly chunks and let them set in the garage for a few days to rehydrate (Houston) and then grind them to 3fg.
Does that sound like a good way to go?
Thanks

[redhawk0]

Hey Fly...I hope you don't go. I'm just getting started. I for one am very appreciative of your efforts to keep this going. I spent the past 5 days going through this ENTIRE thread. I've learned sooooo much (in knowledge)...I'm looking forward to putting it into practical practice once our weather breaks here in the North East.. I'm sure I'll have questions as I go. (I think I learned the most from your patience with the guy in the back country of Africa.) I hope to figure out how to make a press puck mold...not sure how to do it since I'm not a machinist by trade. I will likely purchase a 6 ton press from HF as well. If I'm gonna do it...I might as well make the best powder possible. I have access to ToH on our church property and they already told me I can have as much as I want....so...I'll have a limitless supply of charcoal making wood. Primarily I'll be shooting the Flintlock Hawkins...but I may try some out of the 44mag as well. I think plinking loads for the Redhawk would be a lot of fun. I don't plan to make 50+lbs of holy black...but I would like to make enough to have some fun at the range.

Anyway...hope you stop by once in awhile...between you and Boz330...you seem to have the most comprehensive answers. I value you two above all else...not discounting anyone here (so don't flame me)...just noticed some answers were more consistent through the past 5+ years worth of posts. I'm not afraid of the process thanks to many here....cautious..yes...but not afraid.

BTW...i love the "Don't shoot your eye out, kid" references....they are always good for a laugh for those that don't understand the process.

redhawk

[AllanD]

I'm going to try this. I made some "dextrin" from cornstarch in a skillet last night( amid a hail of questions concerning why I was sauteing cornstarch) from a procedure I got off the net. When should I add this if I choose to try it? Shoot straight T-Bird

"dextrin" is available in purified form by the Pound or kilo from your nearest Homebrew, Beer making store if you do not have those locally (some states do not) there are mail order supply houses that can be found on the web.