My homemade black powder

[Avenger442]

Congrats Flashman.

This stuff can be a good hair remover if your not careful. After pressing and drying the first pucks that I made I though I would test a small piece. I took a small sliver perhaps twice as big a a pencil eraser to test burn. It had a thin edge and was wedge shaped. So I lit the thin edge with a long butane lighter used for my grill. It took a few moments to light but when it did it shot off across the yard with a big puff of smoke that had a neighbor looking to see what was burning. Glad it went away from me. No more of that test.

[FLASHMAN]

Thanks Avenger ---wearing a crash helmet --
Have eliminated the pressed puck stage --far too volatile --
simply sun---dry & crush carefully-- in wooden mortar ----sieve with plastic screen ------
Tiny spark from a old frizzen /flint strike ----sets this monster off so violently --
( no blobs of sizzling sulphur /black soot remains !! --clean slate ---)

---the softwood charcoal is really the key to this formidable demon
--very very satisfied ---Persian lilac white cedar /softwood charcoal=---astounding difference!
thanks to all for this great result ---best forum for enlightenment!!
now trying to measure 10 /20 /grains ---for firing test ---
( if I GRAM equals 16 GRAINS )
got to invent a measuring tube of sorts /maybe copper /brass -or glass test tube --sealed
marked etc --
will post fotos of slug velocity/penetration etc

regards FLASH

[Whiterabbit]

Have eliminated the pressed puck stage --far too volatile --

Just my opinion: keep an open mind on this. This stuff is NOT volatile (prone to spontaneous evaporation), nor will it ignite under pressure or with electric discharge. It takes fire or spark, and that doesn't happen on accident when care is taken.

But the pressing does get more material in less space and results in tougher grains which does yield less fouling, more consistent ignition, and higher power density.

Don't get me wrong, if you get "enough" out of the way you are doing it, don't let me tell you you are wrong! I'm just suggesting, after you really start to use it, if you fee like you need just a little more, bark up this tree first....

[FLASHMAN]

Good advice ---I learn more everytime I ask a question --!
thankyou Whiterabbit--

Now I have encountered a rather annoying problem ---
here,s what happens
--1 ---the GRANULATED new softwood BP --1-2 mm granules ---FLASH OFF very well --
instantly ---with TINY flint spark ---
so I loaded cap lock with 20 grains -----
huh ? NOTHING !!
30 grains ----ZERO ---!!
40 GRAINS tamped down hard !!
again --zero !!
70 grains ------a delayed dull bang !????
( all this is approx. 2F OR 3F coarse grains ---that are vicious OUTSIDE the barrel !!
this had me totally baffled /depressed!!

HAD an idea ---pulverise coarse granules /particles to 4 F OR fine powder
load 50 grains
KABOOM ! HUGE BLAST --RECOIL ---!
load 30 grains ( less )
KABOOM ! HUGE BLAST ! ---RECOIL !
great MV --- SUPERB penetration --lott smoke !!

happiness is restored
scrap COARSE granules ---
use fine powder --- 50 grains ---( maybe too much for breech ? )
but still FAR more stunning than hardwood black powder --
I( suppose coarse sugar sized grains ---are for BIG BORE CANNONS ???
Certainly DO NOT WORK in 8mm 10 inch barrel !

Will try compressing those pucks with wet dough BP --
You are probably correct --denser compressed BP ---will fire better
but for now I am happy with BP dust !!in smooth bore --DIY --BEST not to exceed max dose !
regards Flashman

[FLASHMAN]

Here are close up fotos
of the re-crushed /pestle /mortar GP granules or whateva they can be called

much finer ---salt size particles --not perfect sizes ---but close to a powdery consistency

this fires instantly ----even using KIDDIE caps from toy guns --( the flash from the mercury fulminate
in these kids caps is very WEAK --compared to those CCI # 11 percussion caps( the only items I order from Pedersoli agent) but still ignites the fine powder easily!!! -- ie CCI caps ---throw a large flash--- from the threaded end-of a dismantled powder drum-in a dark room -----
the kids caps are half as intense--but still ignite the demon powder !!
everything you see is Home made --(thanks to master gun maker Mark Elliots guidance!!)
so
coarse grains 2mm or bit bigger than sugar --are useless compressed in a breech ---
yet they FLASH of violently --OUTSIDE the gun ????
so
pulverised to almost a powder --works very well --extremely satisfactory

BUT no idea -----WHY ?
anyhow ---there is a group of warthog nearby ---lets see what the 8mm can do at 20 meters?
( penetration ---? clean thru 4 inch thick mahogany block & 10 meters--)

now for the real test ---in a 50 cal MZ 25 inch barrel!( diy as well --)

if it all fails --will chalk up to experience !

[FLASHMAN]

more fotos BTW --- THE measuring cylinder in
the last foto reads over 50 grains --
but actual weight of charge is only 2 grams exactly ---or 32 gGRAINS ----
so that measure cyl is way off --or I am setting the slide gauge incorrectly --

but it still fires ok --no barrel /breech damage yet!

[Boz330]

Power comes from weight. In my tests an equal weight of powder whether home made or store bought gave equivalent velocities. The difference was in the volume needed to make that weight. Example; in my 58 cal Hawken it takes 95 gr on the volume measure to be equivalent to 80gr of store bought. The pressed puck method is how you get the density you need.

Bob

[FLASHMAN]

Messed up this new batch --wet milled ---
but could not remove from mill drum as it was a sticky glutenous gel --

so I added more water --washed it out into flat tray ---sun dried 2 days
IDIOT ! --- got those saltpetre crystal separation AGAIN -- ( white crystals = too much water)
as Nobade warned me ---the BP refused to ignite --even with flared matches !! at least I know
the problem ----back into tumbler---

so NOW is DRY MILLING !---
THEN pressing the dough cakes into a puck press --to increase density

makes so much sense now --this finicky BP--mixture can SEPARATE or revert to its original components
if --not compressed--
SO --will keep trying
but blast shield will be priority ---just in case

[Fly]

Let me give you a tip. First By adding to much water you are transforming your kno-3 back to crystal form.
I have been teaching people for years how to make quality powdered & it is in the link above. You have made this
so much harder then it is. When I corn my powder I lightly mist it then mix it up real good. It should just stick
together in your hand in making a fist. If water comes out when pressing you had to much water.

If you go by the above you should have very good powder. Fly

[FLASHMAN]

Learnt a hard lesson -----
better follow your advice to the letter --got to compress those dough "cakes "

( The first batch of compressed pucks ----dried out ----created a magnificent display of an inferno !

yet I wet milled 2 nd mixture ---due to many severe warnings of STATIC ! --had me extremely
nervous of dry milling ----but the black soup /sludge slop is almost impossible to remove from tumbler-
--hence the dilute rinsed - out liquid ---that ----when air /sun dried in this terrific heat -
creates white saltpetre crystal zones --on the perimeter of the tray--!

so its dry milling for 8 hrs ------no big bang yet ---must be safe --earth cable /blast shield ok
then -----its follow your advice ----but-rather begin with less than a ton ----pressure on the piston( metal)
scary process -------rather stand with full body weight on press ---5 tons is frightening !

lets see how brave I am !!
again --grateful for the correct procedure ----forget the prophets of doom /medical bills !

[Nobade]

Heck, I am using a 20 ton press on a 2 1/2 inch diameter puck. No worries there, I keep it compressed for 5 minutes and they come out hard enough to ring like ceramic. But do use VERY little water, like Fly says, just mist it slightly and stir the dust together. It should just start to form little balls when you mix it, any more water and it causes problems. I let the pucks dry for a month or so, then break them up and grind them with a ceramic bur coffee grinder.

-Nobade

[FLASHMAN]

OUCH ! --20 Tons --!!
now that's some pressure I cannot imagine !!

no wonder I have hit & miss results !--
ok --will go to 2 tons ----& change of underwear-----

so -the dried pucks take 4 weeks? in the sun or shade?--and they ring like ceramic ?well that is certainly an eye-opener!
goodness ----how little I know ----!!

one thing --have machined a new powderdrum ----case hardening now
( THE flash hole was too small ---now its 4mm ID ---same as T W Catalog states
plus the nipple tapped hole was 10 mm too far away from breech hole--

so the cheapo kids caps can effectively blast ignite the maim charge with LESS distance to travel
---pure common sense ---have 2 wait 3 months for Remington 11 mm magnum caps from USA-- VIA
Pedersoli agent
so will use kids caps meanwhile --they still ignite the good stuff I made!!
appreciate that info on 20 tons ----scary ---

very grateful

[Fly]

Flashman Most people including myself use 12 tons. One other thing Static electricity can't & will not ever set off BP.
It simply does not produce enough amps to produce heat. It has been proven many times. Police use stun guns that
produce well over 100,000 volts & will knock a man to the ground but do not burn him at all. Reason not enough amps.

There is a video showing a person trying to ignite black powder with a stun gun but could not. You will not set off BP
by hitting it with a hammer unless the hammer starks. Remember it is Heat that sets it off. Flame or hot sparks.

Fly

[rheagunman]

Ignoring the last 800 years of mechanical processing will net you "meal" powder that was made around the year 1200. Bamboo was strong enough to contain the pressures generated. Sure, start with the bat guano, or become a night soil collector, as was done during the revolution, and with a few processes you will have the Potassium Nitrate at little cost. The other ingredents are easy. Enjoy yourself, seeking knowledge and obtaining experience are a worthy goal.
There are old blasters, and there are bold blasters, but there are no old, bold blasters.
John, state licensed blasting technician, retired.

I agree 100%, knowledge & experience is a very worthy goal. When i was a kid my friends dad had some dynamite sticks that had water droplets on them. I asked "what is it doing wet" he said that was normal, go over there & touch it, it won't hurt you. After i touched it he had a grin on his face & said "do you have a headache" bout that time my head went hurting like crazy. Nowadays i carry a spray bottle of Nitro in my pocket just in case my heart gets to acting up. As the saying goes "if it don't give you a headache, it is no good"

[FLASHMAN]

My attempts to compress those dough balls --into high density pucks ---Failed over & over
I notice --the GP " paste ---under 500 lbs ----starts to seep back -up into the 2 thou gap
between piston & barrel sleeve ---big mess ---piston seizes eventualy --hard to dismantle the whole
press parts ---

so I machined ironwood -( very dense ) into a longer piston with very minimal one thou clearance
to sleeve --same with base ----2 inch long by I & 1/2 inch diameter piston ---( inside old ford shock )
bit better --but at 2 tons ---the same happens ---BP Paste manages to sqeeze back past piston --

so I had better get a machinist to make a robust BRASS piston / inside a carbon steel or stainless re-inforced -cylinder ---as my present set up is simply not up to the pressure --required
no the dough is very firm ----rubbery --little moisture --
just have to beef up set up --& use gloves !! damn that BP stains skin & everything else --
nothing ventured ---just keep at it ---
thanks for all the inspiration ---
( local Zulus think I am possessed by demons ! )
regards Flashman

[Nobade]

If it is dough, you have way too much water in it. It should be dust that just barely starts to form balls when it is stirred together. It's mostly dust.

-Nobade

[Driver man]

Sprinkle a little of your finest powder into the plastic kid gun caps before fitting to the nipple for very good ignition, (not too much as it will blow the hammer back)

[Tracy]

My attempts to compress those dough balls --into high density pucks ---Failed over & over
I notice --the GP " paste ---under 500 lbs ----starts to seep back -up into the 2 thou gap

Yep, sounds like way too much water. If it's humid (as it usually is around here), I can press it without adding any moisture at all. It should definitely not be perceptibly moist.

[FLASHMAN]

OK --so still too much H20--!
that's probably it---that corrosive black liquid should be contained under 2 tons--
burns like hell in small cuts in the hands---!
-but any less water ---the "ball " wont stick or-keep together --crumbles ---in hand ?-
so that's it ?----will try powder & tiny droplet of water --
or let the "dough cakes --dry out --a bit longer --then crumble into soft chunks -& stuff into cylinder

better use ladies gloves---
having another attempt ---just keep on ---till I get a very very dense puck

NOW ---do I sun dry --or shade dry these pucks ?--6 -8 weeks ?
I notice --the one ton pucks I made yesterday --already showing WHITE saltpetre patches everywhere
so ---too much water -----
this is fascinating ---not easy --necessity is pushing me ---very illegal to import this demon --no idea why !
unless u have corrupt political crony friends in high places!( paranoid ignorant bureaucrats --we are not all
Guy Fawkes revolutionaries ---)---but it falls on deaf prejudiced ears---!

ok ---again ---final exams !
no humidity here ---yet

[Hotfxr]

OK --so still too much H20--!
that's probably it---that corrosive black liquid should be contained under 2 tons--
burns like hell in small cuts in the hands---!
-but any less water ---the "ball " wont stick or-keep together --crumbles ---in hand ?-
so that's it ?----will try powder & tiny droplet of water --
or let the "dough cakes --dry out --a bit longer --then crumble into soft chunks -& stuff into cylinder

better use ladies gloves---
having another attempt ---just keep on ---till I get a very very dense puck

NOW ---do I sun dry --or shade dry these pucks ?--6 -8 weeks ?
I notice --the one ton pucks I made yesterday --already showing WHITE saltpetre patches everywhere
so ---too much water -----
this is fascinating ---not easy --necessity is pushing me ---very illegal to import this demon --no idea why !
unless u have corrupt political crony friends in high places!( paranoid ignorant bureaucrats --we are not all
Guy Fawkes revolutionaries ---)---but it falls on deaf prejudiced ears---!

ok ---again ---final exams !
no humidity here ---yet

Many of us have tried different methods that fly in the face of what has been repeated in this thread many, many times with the expected underwhelming results. Isn't the definition of insanity trying something over and over and expecting different results? I myself fought and railed against the wisdom of those that have gone before me until I got over my stubbornness and got on the traditional method train. And I haven't looked back since. I mill the ingredients for anywhere from 8 to 24 hours depending on how much attention I am paying at the time. Then just a light mist of water (or if the humidity is high enough, no water) over the meal powder then into a puck die with a 20 ton press. leave it under pressure for 10 minutes to an hour depending on what I am doing, then wrapped in butcher paper and thrown into a wooden box for a month or so. Never had a problem with any type of spontaneous combustion and my finished powder weighs virtually the same as Goes and has been proven by chronograph to be faster than Goex. Fly, Nobade, and others have had patience with my ramblings and the fact that I am so easily distracted and as a result of no longer trying to invent the wheel again, I am producing great black powder. Listen to the ones giving advice here and you will not go wrong.