My homemade black powder

[Nobade]

I had started doing the same thing. I would break up the pucks and grind them while the next one was sitting under pressure in the press.

Today I started on a new press die. I am now working in a hydraulic shop so I have access to honed steel tubing. I'm using a piece that is 2.5 inches ID, and making the bottom cap and pusher out of aluminum. It will be considerably lighter than my all steel one I've been using for years and with the nice honed bore should be easier to get the pucks out. Hoping to try it this weekend.

[HamGunner]

I have preferred to grind the disc wet, the way it comes out of the press. I have less fines, so it puts a little less pressure on the small coffee grinder. Already ground BP dries much faster.

When I was using the little ceramic coffee grinder, I too tried grinding before the pucks had dried and found it to be much easier and I did not find that any more fines were made. I do know it certainly took a lot of the work out of the grinding.

If I have the time after pressing, I still go ahead and start grinding, even now that I am using a much stronger hand cranked grain grinder. Humidity is not a problem where I dry my pucks or the already ground and screened powder as I have either done it out in the sun in warm weather or inside my hobby shack where it is climate controlled.

I have a half dozen large oven sized cookie sheets upon which to spread out the powder. Right now with the cold weather, we are fighting to keep the humidity above about 20-25 % inside.

[indian joe]

When I was using the little ceramic coffee grinder, I too tried grinding before the pucks had dried and found it to be much easier and I did not find that any more fines were made. I do know it certainly took a lot of the work out of the grinding.

If I have the time after pressing, I still go ahead and start grinding, even now that I am using a much stronger hand cranked grain grinder. Humidity is not a problem where I dry my pucks or the already ground and screened powder as I have either done it out in the sun in warm weather or inside my hobby shack where it is climate controlled.

I have a half dozen large oven sized cookie sheets upon which to spread out the powder. Right now with the cold weather, we are fighting to keep the humidity above about 20-25 % inside.

I made up a frame to mount my coffee grinder solid on the bench and added a discharge spout that empties into a decent size container underneath - made it into a different implement -- cranking that thing while holding it was no fun at all

[DoubleBuck]

Ham;
Did you observe any difference in the loaded density between fresh ground versus dry ground pucks? My main concern with doing it fresh is; if it promotes soft grains. But, if you had a reduction in fines, that would seem to say the grains at least stayed together. I have no doubt that dry grinding/screening has to fracture each grain off the puck; and that may very well promote fines. But, at the same time, if damp working of the puck promotes softer grains, the fines would show up some time later; like in storage. I'm not arguing either point, at all. If doing them damp is better, or no different, I'm all in; because it is certainly easier. I've only done them dry, from the info I've read, and how I originally learned to do it. Mainly from here. ha.
Again, from my reading, it seems the commercial powder is the wettest at milling, and the driest just before grinding/screening, with the final process being drying and final screening together, following polishing. Which would leave room to say when they break their 'cakes' up, they may be close in moisture content, to our fresh pucks.
On the humidity and being cabin fevered, I've been trying to set on myself, not to cook a batch of brown TP charcoal, while I can watch it every minute and have nothing else to do. I want to cook a batch brown and see if it helps, hurts, or makes no difference. And, I want to try the 77/13/10 ratio recipe. In this low indoor humidity (I touched my wife on the nose a few minutes ago and got a real pretty half inch blue spark. I'm not sure, but think it crossed her eyes) powder should dry very well and can very well, too.

[LAGS]

I have ground up pucks right after pressing them.
Yes,
There was less fines.
But you can see that that is because the fines are just sticking to the larger grains.
The fines are not still part of the density of the larger grains.
So overall it just by size reduces the overall density of each grain.
It ain't by much , because not every large grain has a fine stuck to it.
But i seem to have a more consistent density if I press the pucks , then dry them before I grind them.
The fines do get re wetted and then repressed.
So I am not loosing powder.
Just loosing just a little time saving the fines.

[Swineherd]

I got impatient and tried grinding freshly pressed pucks. I had a lot of buildup of fine material sticking in the grinder and rather than shattering the puck into well defined granules, it seemed to smush a great deal into softer crumbles. It didn't tickle my fancy one bit.

[Nobade]

Hmmm, your pucks are a lot wetter than mine were. All this may possibly be climate related, when I was doing that I was in NM and now I'm not so the technique may have to change. What worked great before may be a failure now, we'll see.

[HWooldridge]

In my experience, grinding immediately after pressing just gummed up my grain grinder and made a huge mess. I'm happy to put up with fines from drier product if it keeps the grinder clean, especially since I can make more pucks. I've done up to three press cycles with fines and the total gets less on each pass, so eventually there isn't much left over. I have a plastic container to store fines and will make pucks when the quantity gets to the point where I think it's worthwhile.

[HamGunner]

Ham;
Did you observe any difference in the loaded density between fresh ground versus dry ground pucks?

I did not really see much change in my measured density, but I doubt my pucks come out nearly as damp as some must be because I still see dust released from the grinder even when ground fairly soon after pressing. I imagine my Fresh pucks have had several hours or even overnight to dry a bit before I got around to crushing and grinding. That is what I call fresh grind.

Early on during my first batches, I waited for up to a week before grinding and certainly found the pucks to be DRY and very hard. I was using the little coffee grinder and likely not using it to it's best efficiency as far as fines are concerned as it sure seemed to have a higher percentage of fines. Plus, I was usually experimenting with different types of charcoal with each successive batch, so the density was likely changing anyway.

For the most part anymore, I usually only wait a day or so before I grind up the pucks. My pucks are not very thick at all and I turn them over to expose the under side every time I go by them or check on them, so they are not damp by any means.

I think the very first time that I ever pressed any meal was the only time that I got it damp enough that I saw moisture being pressed out of the pucks. Now, after learning from Lags to use a spray bottle to dampen the milled meal more evenly, I only see a slight damp spot on the very bottom steel plate of the press, under the stack of pucks. I do wait a few hours, after dampening the meal, before I press the pucks.

Lags sure seems to always come up with and share better ideas and shortcuts. I have utilized plenty of his suggestions in my processes.

[Sandro_ventania]

I got impatient and tried grinding freshly pressed pucks. I had a lot of buildup of fine material sticking in the grinder and rather than shattering the puck into well defined granules, it seemed to smush a great deal into softer crumbles. It didn't tickle my fancy one bit.

Very strange to hear that! I grind the discs as soon as they come out of the press. It doesn't make anything dirty, the discs break as if they were dry, it just generates less fines, as the disc breaks a little more easily. My climate is always humid, I've never seen it below 60%, so I believe that the humidity in the air doesn't get in the way. To make a mess in the grinder, its disc is pressed a little and contains a lot of water.

[LAGS]

@H G
Remember that I also said to lightly spray water on the green powder.
Mix it up a little.
Then press it thru a screen to even out what moisture you put on the powder.
Letting it sit for an hour or more after you sprayed the water on works well too.
But the screening just seems to speed things up.
And if you think that you got the powder too wet for some reason.
Screening it several times helps it dry out faster and more evenly before you press the screened powder.
Just a suggestion that I use when I screw up occasionally.

[HamGunner]

Well, it got up to just over 50 degrees today and was overcast. Perfect day to do some chronograph tests of powder as my Chony likes bright cloudy skies the best. I tested Goex 3F, my Sassafras 3F, and my recent batch of 3F Great Value Toilet Paper.

I used my 1851 .36 Cal. Pietta Colt navy reproduction that was imported by Navy Arms in 1976. I fired six shots through the Chrony at about 15 ft. to make certain that it was going to work and also to foul the cylinder and bore so that all testing would be done with the revolver fouled. I then shot six shots of each powder twice, for 12 shots of each powder, but I shot one cylinder full of each of the three powders before testing each powder a second time. Below are the average of 12 shots of each powder.

Each test was loaded with a weighed charge of 22 gr. ignited by a Rem. #11 cap. I used my cast 80gr. .375 dia. Ball seated directly onto the powder with no card or wad. I used Lambs Tallow / Beeswax level with the throat of the cylinder for lube.

Sassafras 3F Average velocity 906 fps. ES 49 SD 16
TP 3F Average velocity 930 fps. ES 39 SD 14
Goex 3F Average velocity 938 fps. ES 29 SD 10

The TP powder was cleaner burning than either of the other two. I think Goex probably had the most noticeable fouling.

[HWooldridge]

Well, it got up to just over 50 degrees today and was overcast. Perfect day to do some chronograph tests of powder as my Chony likes bright cloudy skies the best. I tested Goex 3F, my Sassafras 3F, and my recent batch of 3F Great Value Toilet Paper.

I used my 1851 .36 Cal. Pietta Colt navy reproduction that was imported by Navy Arms in 1976. I fired six shots through the Chrony at about 15 ft. to make certain that it was going to work and also to foul the cylinder and bore so that all testing would be done with the revolver fouled. I then shot six shots of each powder twice, for 12 shots of each powder, but I shot one cylinder full of each of the three powders before testing each powder a second time. Below are the average of 12 shots of each powder.

Each test was loaded with a weighed charge of 22 gr. ignited by a Rem. #11 cap. I used my cast 80gr. .375 dia. Ball.

Sassafras 3F Average velocity 906 fps. ES 49 SD 16
TP 3F Average velocity 930 fps. ES 39 SD 14
Goex 3F Average velocity 938 fps. ES 29 SD 10

The TP powder was cleaner burning than either of the other two. I think Goex probably had the most noticeable fouling.

Hamgunner,

Your results are similar to mine with regard to ranking. My cedar based powder wasn’t terrible, but TP was by far the fastest. Goex had the second highest velocity and was the dirtiest powder.

[DoubleBuck]

HamGunner
Killer tests! Thanks for posting the results and the more I see of this TP charcoal, the more I'm thinking it really is the real deal. We've both had great luck with Sweet Sassie Frassie, and now we've both had fine results from the Golden Throne Paper. I myself think it's worth continuing on with. Thanks again for posting your results!

[Nobade]

I want to thank whoever suggested using a grain grinder to grind up pucks! I had forgotten I had one here, a Victorio brand. It worked great this morning. I decided to combine techniques, setting the grain grinder on pretty coarse then anything that wouldn't pass my 1F screen got run through the ceramic burr coffee grinder that I have normally used. That made it quick and easy, and no adjustments to either machine were required. I managed to break up the latest batch of powder much faster and easier than ever before.

The new press die made from hydraulic honed tubing works really well also. I'm getting good densities, in the neighborhood of 7.1 grams/cc with little effort and ejecting the pucks is so much easier with the smooth bore. I recommend trying that if you have a local hydraulic repair shop that can sell or give you a few inches of tube in whatever size you need for your press. I used 2.5 inch for my 20 ton press and that seems to be a good size.

Did anybody see the new video using Wonder Bread for charcoal? I'm amazed it worked as well as it did, and glad he is willing to try all this oddball stuff so we don't have to.

[HWooldridge]

I want to thank whoever suggested using a grain grinder to grind up pucks! I had forgotten I had one here, a Victorio brand. It worked great this morning. I decided to combine techniques, setting the grain grinder on pretty coarse then anything that wouldn't pass my 1F screen got run through the ceramic burr coffee grinder that I have normally used. That made it quick and easy, and no adjustments to either machine were required. I managed to break up the latest batch of powder much faster and easier than ever before.

The new press die made from hydraulic honed tubing works really well also. I'm getting good densities, in the neighborhood of 7.1 grams/cc with little effort and ejecting the pucks is so much easier with the smooth bore. I recommend trying that if you have a local hydraulic repair shop that can sell or give you a few inches of tube in whatever size you need for your press. I used 2.5 inch for my 20 ton press and that seems to be a good size.

Did anybody see the new video using Wonder Bread for charcoal? I'm amazed it worked as well as it did, and glad he is willing to try all this oddball stuff so we don't have to.

Speaking of “Everything Black Powder”, he also put out a good video on duplex loads. Definitely worth watching.

[Sandro_ventania]

Has anyone here tried BP without sulfur? They say it makes an almost smokeless powder.

[DoubleBuck]

Sandro
I tried some powder (about 10 grams if I recall) made with no Sulfur. For me, it was really hard to light, and lacked energy. I had some Schuetzen 2ff a few years ago. It was hard to light compared to my home made. Really hard, actually. But I didn't have trouble with it lighting in my rifles, and I thought it shot well. The difference in it and my home made was about 1/2 the difference of the no Sulfur powder compared to my home made. I had no chronograph then, but the powder did not perform well, for me. I did not pay attention to the amount of smoke from it. I guess I never thought about it. I know it smelled different.
You may have different results from not adding Sulfur. If you make a test, let us know the results!

[HWooldridge]

I made a half pound batch of no sulfur. It shot about 20% slower than the normal recipe. However, it might be worth experimenting with the KNO3 and charcoal ratios; I just never messed with it any further.

[Sandro_ventania]

I read something about it. It said the proportion was 100 parts nitrate to 27 parts coal. I'm not sure, but it seems like the measurement is by volume, but I'm not sure. The advantage described is little smoke and being less corrosive.