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Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #3401
    Boolit Buddy
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    OK, the moment of TRUTH has arrived!

    To get straight to the point, I'd call it a qualified success. The powder works very well. But it is not as powerful as Goex, and it is much dirtier.

    To give some background on my shooting experience: I have been shooting competitively in the North-South Skirmish Association for 9 years now. I shoot musket, carbine, smoothbore, and revolver. My usual powder is Goex; once my shop was out and I had to use Shuetzen. I found it dirty enough that the Moose Wilkinson bullet I shoot, which has very limited lube carrying capability, was unusable within 3-5 shots. I normally shoot 70 grains 3F Goex in my smoothbore. My buddy let me use some of his ammo at a skirmish last November when I forgot mine. I came off the line and immediately said, "That doesn't feel like 70 grains!" He then said, "It's not Goex, it's "Reenactor Powder". So I was pleased that I could sense the difference.

    My home-made powder is made using poplar wood from Home Depot. I am using 75% potassium nitrate, 15% charcoal, 10% sulfur. The sulfur is 99.5% pure and the kno3 is 99.8% pure from Duda Energy. I am misting my green meal with distilled water. I am pulverizing the ingredients separately to dust before milling in a Harbor Freight rock tumber ball mill for about 5 hours. Tumbling media is 1/2" copper pipe cut into 1" segments and filled with lead. The ends are domed to trap the lead. I am pressing pucks using a 12 ton Harbor Freight hydraulic press. Pucks are held under pressure for 5 minutes. I'm using a Fly puck die/piston that is 2" in diameter. Pucks are dried using a dehydrator and broken into chunks and ground through a ceramic coffee grinder. Results are screened for 2F and 3F. Fines are recycled back into the ball mill.

    I weighed my charges using an RCBS Chargmaster 1500 scale.

    I can smell a slight difference in the odor of my home-made powder.

    The powder is noticeably dirtier to shoot. Loading became progressively harder, and this happened faster, with the home made powder. With Goex I can pretty much shoot indefinitely with no change in loading effort. In competition, in a 5-minute course of fire I can typically get off 12-14 shots. I feel like loading effort was significantly impacted that it would probably slow down my times and limit the number of shots I could get off. You can see with the picture of the cleaning patches that the patches are quite a bit dirtier when cleaning the home-made powder. Now I only fired 6 shots of the Goex, and 10 of the home made, but still, the patches were way dirtier with home-made.

    For the first test, I fired 6 shots of my normal competition round, the Moose Wilkinson 577-420 bullet, which is a compression style of bullet. It weihs about 426 grains cast in 99.97% pure lead. It has a very small lube groove and so does not carry much lube. I fired 6 shots because the first one gave an error through the chronograph. This bullet was fired with 50 grains of 3F Goex. The average velocity of the 5 good shots was 1043.6 feet per second.

    I then fired 10 shots using my home-made powder. I used 50 grains by weight. 2 shots errored out on the chrono. The average velocity of the 8 good shots was 918.9 feet per second. This is a velocity reduction of about 125 fps.

    I then fired 10 shots using my Pedersoli P58, using the RCBS-500M bullet. It weighs 535 grains when cast with 99.97% pure lead. This is a traditional "minie ball" style of expanding ball bullet. I got 3 errors on the chrono when I failed to realize the sun had moved and my chrono was now in the shade. The average of the 7 good shots was 855 fps. I did not do any comparison to Goex for this round. The charge was 60 grains 3F home-made by weight.

    One very positive thing to note is that as the target shows, the powder is quite effective! Accuracy was equivalent to the equal charge of Goex, for both bullets and guns. The left target is the P58/RCBS-500M, and the right target is the P53/Moose Wilkinson 577-420. The distance was 50 yards. Shots were made from a bench rest.

    So, my take-away from this exercise is that it is relatively easy to make very effective black powder at home. Certainly if you are shooting patched round ball, or any other application where you are not rapidly loading multiple shots, home made powder is nearly as effective, if not the same as, commercial Goex powder. But for rapid-fire competition use, as I need to use it, I would not switch to my home-made over Goex.

    I live in a subdivision. Aside from the 3 willow trees growing down by the neighborhood drainage ponds, which I don't think anyone would appreciate me carving on, I have no way to procure willow. I'm going to see if willow charcoal can be purchased and try a new batch.





    Note on the paper target - all the holes to the right of the paper are from someone else. All my shots are on the paper. As you can see, almost all the shots are in the 4" black.


    I'm using that same dehydrator. I don't think you have much to worry about when pucking. There's no oxygen in there. I did mine with a stainless steel die just going slow. I'm tempted to try and light a puck on fire to see what it does but I don't want to waste that much right now.
    As Vette noted, black powder carries it's own oxygenation in the KNO3. This is why it burns (and vigorously) when sealed up inside a gun barrel or cartridge.

    I have not lit an entire puck, but I did light puck chunks, and they burn almost as rapidly as loose powder. The chunk does tend to fly off like a little rocket motor for the half a second it is still in existence. I also lit damp green meal and it also burns quite rapidly - much more than I expected with it having been dampened for pressing.
    Last edited by maillemaker; 02-21-2021 at 05:59 PM.

  2. #3402
    Boolit Master
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    maillemaker,
    PM sent
    There is no problem so great, that it cannot be solved by the proper application of high explosives.

  3. #3403
    Boolit Buddy
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    Good stuff all around here!

    I finally figured out what I was missing and got my screened stuff up to 70% standard density, including fines (I'm lacking a minimum size screen at the moment.)

    Last question is that if I were to remill a batch, I assume that the dextrine has already been activated, and has to be re-added -correct?

    I still can't get over how cheap homemade blackpowder can be! For a bit of extra time and flexibility in measuring, my recent bulk order makes the ingredients a fuzz over $2/lb!

  4. #3404
    Boolit Master
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    I think the dextrin just melts when the moisture is added and glues the powder together, it doesn't need to be added a second time when you remill the fines. Once it gets ground up in the mill it will act just like it did the first time and act like a binder.

  5. #3405
    Boolit Master
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    Maillemaker: what an excellent and detailed report, and thank you.

    Yes, the next step is some Willow, Paulowenia, (sp?), or Tree of Heaven charcoal. I have no doubt you'll get where you want to be.

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  6. #3406
    Boolit Mold Iowaflint's Avatar
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    Well, I am brand new here, and have been following this thread with great interest, I live in Iowa, and we have a great abundance of willow, I have willow charcoal all powdered up ready for my next batch of powder. I am very interested in the puck making process, and will try that.

  7. #3407
    Boolit Mold Iowaflint's Avatar
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    What is the brand of the coffee grinder that is used to grind the pucks?

  8. #3408
    Boolit Buddy
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    What is the brand of the coffee grinder that is used to grind the pucks?
    The brand does not matter so much as that it is a ceramic burr style of grinder. You do not want one of those bladed grinders that has a steel blade inside.

    This is the one I bought, but it is no longer available. However, there are several knock-offs that appear to be almost identical.

    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CNOMCOM

    Similar ones:
    https://smile.amazon.com/Manual-Grin.../dp/B074RD3JW5
    https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07R5K8NLT
    https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08CHBCNMF

    For everyone who wants one of my adapters:

    I uploaded my design to Shapeways, but their base price is $22. If I add a $10 markup (what I would get), then the thing becomes $32 plus shipping. I think that is outrageous. Shapeways used to be a pretty good deal and an easy way to make a couple of bucks on a design and not have to deal with the hassle of printing and shipping.

    Here's another couple of things:

    First, while I am pretty sure that all of the above ceramic grinders have the same threaded connection for the glass jar, I can't be 100% sure it will fit your grinder. I have sent one to vettepilot so he will soon be able to confirm if it fits his or not.

    Second, I have only used the adapter for grinding about 10 minutes total. I cannot be 100% sure that the design is strong long-term. Additive printers like what I have print in layers, like a layer cake. Cylindrical objects (which this essentially is) are inherently weak to shear forces perpendicular to the cylinder axis because the cylinder is made up of countless little layers. This means it's easy to snap a tube in half. Now I have added a generous radius where the cylinder meets the mounting flange and it feels sturdy to me. But, it's possible we get to cranking on this thing for an hour and the cylinder snaps off the base.





    If people are satisfied with those 2 caveats, I wouldn't mind making these for $10 + $9 flat rate shipping, so basically $20. I'll just work through PayPal and not deal with Shapeways.

    Steve
    Last edited by maillemaker; 02-22-2021 at 01:43 PM.

  9. #3409
    Boolit Buddy
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    I got the design up on Shapeways if you want to buy it through them:

    https://www.shapeways.com/product/H9...96224&li=shops

    My markup is $10. Everything else is them.

    Steve

  10. #3410
    Boolit Master
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    I granulated my pucks today. I made about 80% dust and 20% usable powder. I even cheated and kept some larger grains. The powder I have is very solid and burns well, but it's too much work for such a low yield.

    Tonight I'm going to cook some corn starch and try some screened powder again. This time I'll also cut out the alcohol and go with only water.

  11. #3411
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    Sneaky Pete, I've been using the over the counter generic laxative from Wally World or any other big pharmacy that is 100% dextrin. It gives a more consistent result for grain hardness. I have also found that my screened powder works better as larger grains around a 1-2F but needs to packed tighter under the PRB when loading in my long guns.

  12. #3412
    Boolit Buddy
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    1) get rid of the alcohol
    2) set the grinder coarse so you need to put some stuff through it several times and screen screen screen and screen again
    thats the only way I can get a decent % anyway..................
    I'm pressing with a 12-ton press, I use distilled water to dampen. I have to re-grind 3-4 times through the coffee grinder before everything passes the no-go screen. I agree you don't want to grind to aggressively in the coffee grinder or you'll end up with more fines than useable powder. I'm actually contemplating getting another coffee grinder and setting up one with a very large gap for initial grinding and then use the second one for final grinding.

    I'm getting about 1/3 2F, 1/3 3F and 1/3 fines.

    From 565 grams of pucks I ended up with:

    195 grams 2F
    195 grams 3F
    175 grams fines

  13. #3413
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie2002 View Post
    Sneaky Pete, I've been using the over the counter generic laxative from Wally World or any other big pharmacy that is 100% dextrin. It gives a more consistent result for grain hardness. I have also found that my screened powder works better as larger grains around a 1-2F but needs to packed tighter under the PRB when loading in my long guns.
    Thanks for the tip. Can you give me a link to one of the laxatives? The ones I'm looking at don't have dextrin on the bottle.

  14. #3414
    Boolit Master
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    Sneaky Pete, This stuff will work I use it, it's fiber powder not a laxative but 100% dextrin.
    https://www.googleadservices.com/pag...gQIARB9&adurl=

  15. #3415
    Boolit Master
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    Reports have been variable on the success of using home-made dextrin. I suggest buying quality dextrin, and eliminating a possible variable to good black powder.

    Rice starch is supposedly better than dextrin. I have some to try some time. Same with red gum.

    Just "not enough hours in a day" for me often times... (and WAY too many projects going on!)

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  16. #3416
    Boolit Bub
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    Is there a die I can buy to turn out a 2 inch wide x 1/4 inch thick puck? Does anyone here machine a cylinder, sleeve, and base?

  17. #3417
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for the advise guys. Going off Eddie's tip I bought two jumbo generic containers of fiber powder. One was expensive, but if I bought two the second was 50% off so I bought a life time supply of it equaling about 3.5lbs. Together with the discount I paid $34.08 or about $9.74/lb if my math is correct.

    Label only says Dextrin on it but it's not really yellow. It's almost pure white.

    So if 5% is what people are doing and I'm making 16 oz batch that means I need to add 0.8oz to the mix right?

  18. #3418
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTI1USNRET View Post
    Is there a die I can buy to turn out a 2 inch wide x 1/4 inch thick puck? Does anyone here machine a cylinder, sleeve, and base?
    I used this thing.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Makes 40mm or 1.5" pucks. I went as thick as half an inch. Yes it's steel so go slow. Very well machined.

  19. #3419
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve View Post
    I used this thing.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Makes 40mm or 1.5" pucks. I went as thick as half an inch. Yes it's steel so go slow. Very well machined.
    Thanks. I just ordered it. My homemade wooden mold broke.

    Do you have any idea what kind of pressure I'm able to generate with a workbench vice? Will I get better results with more pressure from an arbor press? What press do you use?

  20. #3420
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by maillemaker View Post
    I'm pressing with a 12-ton press, ...
    Is there a practical difference in the power and velocities generated from powders made using a 4 ton press and a 12 ton press? And do you always use the max power of a press?
    Last edited by CTI1USNRET; 02-27-2021 at 06:49 PM. Reason: added stuff

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BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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