My homemade black powder

[Vettepilot]

Sorry, I can't quote a citation, but I was reading a well done treatise on black powder a while back, whereby they did lab tests on the creosote levels of charcoal. Long story short, it recommended an absolute max temp for good charcoal as 320c (about 600f), with 300c being best.

Side note: Back up your data!! I had a micro SD card go bad, and lost tons of stuff, including 3 years research on black powder. That really hurts!! (Especially since I REALLY know better, as I used to work on/repair computers!!) Don't procrastinate; back up your important data NOW!

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Oh I know Indian Joe, and you're right. It's just the way I am partly. I love to read and study all I can find about anything that interests me. Besides, until recently, while caring for my sister all I had time to do was quick snatches of computer or reading time.

Lately though, I've really been working, much as I can with my disabled back, catching up on backed up chores, projects and things now that my sister has passed on. Got my tumbler done last week.

As regards charcoal temps, I've got a large cast iron dutch oven all rigged up for cooking wood on my propane turkey fryer, and I added a barbeque thermometer to it. I drilled two holes in the lid for vents, and threaded them for pipe plugs to close it off when it's done cooking.

Go big or go home! wink wink. ;~)

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Ok, here's some pics of my charcoil cooker. I even got "cute" and made some old time, "steampunk" finger handles for the vent plugs.

I'm wondering if the lid will seal sufficiently, and not let air in while the whole rig is cooling down. I've seen people using a dutch oven in this manner using vise grips to hold the lid down. Might stop by "Tractor Supply", and see what they get for wood stove gasket material...

Hey! I can't help over-designing things! It's coded into my DNA. But people really like things I make for them, or repairs I do.

Wait 'till ya see my tumbler. I took a real novel approach to that too; one I've never seen anyone try before. I'll hold off posting pics and more info on it 'till I see how it works out.

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Thanks! I can't remember for sure if I got this one at Harbor Freight or at Walmart. (I have three; another for smelting lead, and one for camp cooking.)

Anyway, it won't matter 'cause the thermal mass is there, but I don't know what these are actually made of. I think maybe powdered metal. They certainly don't drill/machine like any cast iron I've ever worked with; they are much harder. Don't go "whacking on them"; they might be prone to cracking...

Vettepilot

[Markham]

I tested my first batch of BP today. I made the charcoal from cedar bedding chips, and it seems to be pretty fast. I granulated to about FFF. In my T/C inline, it shoots just fine but refuses to light in my Uberti Remington NMA with SlixShot nipples and CCI #11 caps. As a control, I loaded Pyrodex RS, which did fire. I know I should try different caps, but none are available. Now I'm hoping to find some Willow to make charcoal.

I'm in Georgia, I've used wild fast-growing mimosa trees, and they turn out just about as good black powder as willow. They grow like weeds around here. I'm pretty sure they grow in Texas too. ...well maybe not west Texas.

[henryinpanama]

Has anyone ever used bamboo to make BP charcoal? I'm having the dickens of a time finding accessible willow, but bamboo grows all over town.

[waksupi]

Has anyone ever used bamboo to make BP charcoal? I'm having the dickens of a time finding accessible willow, but bamboo grows all over town.

I would think it would work fine. Give it a try, and report back!

[Vettepilot]

I'm not so sure about the "using the vent to regulate the temperature" idea. This is not a normal wood stove fire whereby you regulate the draft to control the burn. This is pyrolyzing the wood into charcoal by heating it without air/oxygen. The vent is generally open because pressure in the vessel rises due to the wood gases generated. These gases, escaping from the vent, generally light on fire, or we light them. When the wood gas stops exiting, that is when pyrolization is complete, and it's time to stop cooking. At this point, the vent should be closed to keep air out so that the charcoal does not burn and create ash, besides loss of charcoal.

That's my understanding, resulting from a great deal of study.

Vettepilot

[maillemaker]

Well, I think I ordered my puck about 2 years ago. I had made up a bunch of tumbling media using 1/2" copper pipe filled with molten lead, and I domed the ends of the segments to trap the lead inside. Never got around to actually milling though.

Well, today it's out milling in the back yard. I'm using one of those Harbor Freight rock tumblers. It is not strong enough to roll 2 canisters at the same time. In fact it would barely roll one canister until I wrapped some rubber bands around it to give it some traction against the drive roller.

I've got 100 grams of mix in each canister. So, by tomorrow I should have my first batch of green powder. Then I will use the Fly Puck and my Harbor Freight 12 ton press to make some pucks!

Steve

[Vettepilot]

Indian Joe: Ah, my bad. I thought he was saying he tried to regulate his heat using his vent(s), much like one cuts down the draft on a wood stove with the flu and/or air inlets. My mistake. Apparently he is instead just using the gas output from the vents to guess at his temperature, then he regulates the heat source.

Yes, on my rig, I will monitor the heat/temp with that thermometer, and adjust the gas/heat output on the turkey fryer accordingly. Progress of the cooking will be monitored by the gas coming out of my two vents, then those will be closed off when it's done.

Vettepilot

[Whiterabbit]

Well, I think I ordered my puck about 2 years ago. I had made up a bunch of tumbling media using 1/2" copper pipe filled with molten lead, and I domed the ends of the segments to trap the lead inside. Never got around to actually milling though.

Well, today it's out milling in the back yard. I'm using one of those Harbor Freight rock tumblers. It is not strong enough to roll 2 canisters at the same time. In fact it would barely roll one canister until I wrapped some rubber bands around it to give it some traction against the drive roller.

I've got 100 grams of mix in each canister. So, by tomorrow I should have my first batch of green powder. Then I will use the Fly Puck and my Harbor Freight 12 ton press to make some pucks!

Steve

Good stuff. Basically my process tho I use lead balls for media. About 1/4 lb per can. You’re on your way!

[Vettepilot]

Vettepilot, what I meant by liking your vents, saying, "You can regulate the cook down and choke it off, where you want." If you want control the amount of gas coming off the charcoal, you can somewhat regulate it. Which is, in one way regulating the cook down. Choke it off where you want, I meant, if you are done cooking your charcoal, and you shut the vents, if the lid is sealed, you can seal it and keep it from sucking fresh air in and ending up with a pile of ash. I'm not trying to be smart in any way. You can take everything I say with a grain of salt, actually. And, I'll try to keep my mouth shut on all of it. You all have a great time, doing it all, which ever way you choose. One way or the other, I do like your pot and its setup.
I just went back and cleared all my posts and I'll leave you all with it. Have a wet one.

Hey, no offense was taken at all. It's all good. Any and all input is appreciated and considered. Sorry for any misunderstandings.

Take care,
Vettepilot

[maillemaker]

My first 100 gram batch has come off the mill. Ran about 16 hours. The rubber bands I put around the canister did not survive. But when I went out to look at it this morning it was still tumbling.

Here is what it looked like when I opened the canister:


Interesting the color it turned the copper!

Here is what came out. I ran everything through a screen to separate out the media. Then I tapped the canister over the pile to get out the bits stuck to the walls:



The "flakes" are what had stuck to the bottom face of the canister. If you touch them they turn to dust.

Here is how much media I am using - canister is about half full.



Second canister started milling this morning.

Hi-res photos here: https://imgur.com/a/k8tmezN

Steve

[John McCorkle]

Brewer, once you are at that stage with everything mixed and ground up fine you can either press, dry, grind and grade the powder which will produce a denser powder similar to commercial powders. Most on this thread do that. The other choice is to add a little dextrin to it as a binder, dampen it, run it through a course screen and dry it which gives a powder that is less dense than commercial and needs a larger volume to achieve the same results at the range. I make and shoot screened with no problems in my rifles and single shot pistols. I adjust my screened load to match the weight of commercial to start with and work up a load from there. For me it's easier to make and shoot screened.

Questions to you on screened...1) does dextrin slow the burn? 2) what accuracy/consistency can I expect with screened powder? 3) have you seen batch to batch consistency when you are making?

I only have single shot rifles and want to get a dependable source of powder in Louisiana (no one uses bp anymore now that primative rifle season now includes center fire above .35 Cal). I don't have a shop press and prob won't corn the powder...would rather screen but my major concern is consistency

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[maillemaker]

I was expecting my black powder to be blacker? It's kind of grey in appearance. Does it look ok?



Steve

[Vettepilot]

"he" was me mate! ---we're doin the same thing - just a little different way around it

back to your pot -- how did you rig the vent plugs? do they screw in against a bottom and seal completely or just a restriction (larger hole to smaller hole)?
You will get a decent amount of charcoal in one burn there - I would cut the wood short, split it and stand it up in that pot - but then I just cant stand things (any container) part full - my dna

Yeah, that's exactly how I plan to fill this thing. I'll whack the wood off to length with my bandsaw or chop saw, split them if/as necessary, and stand 'em up in there. Should be a pretty good batch. I have what I believe is Black Willow. I also have some Juniper to try, which apparently was favored for top grade powder in England long ago. Who knows? We'll see how it goes...

Re: my vent plugs. They are just 1/4" pipe plugs. The plugs will be out to cook, then be screwed in to seal the pot off after cooking is done. I added the curly-cue finger holds to allow easier screwing in of the plugs when the pot is hot, and also 'cause I think they look kind of cool.

Vettepilot

[Eddie2002]

John, I add about 2% dextrin by weight to the mix before milling it, that way it gets totally combined with the rest of the ingredients. I don't make my own dextrin, instead it can be purchased at any pharmacy as a fiber additive which is where I got the stuff I'm using. Just check the ingredients on the label and get the dextrin powder. I don't think it affects the burn rate since it's made out of heated starch which is pretty much all carbon and will get burned up in the chemical reaction when the powder is ignited. Consistency depends on granule size and with my powder I make a damp blob about the size of a golf ball with the green meal in a doughy consistency, rub or push it through some #8 screen and then dry it on news paper while turning it occasionally to prevent it from clumping up. If you can't find #8 screen double up with 1/4 inch hardware screening. After drying I break up any larger chunks and sift the fines out of it using window screen. My powder is pretty course, about a 1 1/2 F but seems to burn better than going down to a 2F or 3F grain size. I think the lighter density of the screened powder allows the course grains to burn better but that's just gut feeling with no real proof. My screened powder doesn't pour worth a damn out of a measure or horn so I need to dispense it from a wide mouth plastic jar using a set of powder scoops made out of some 45-70 brass I picked up. Packing the load once the ball is rammed helps compress the powder and helps with the consistency also. Always weigh the screened powder and compare it to commercial stuff so you can adjust the volume to the lighter weight of the screened. My powder weight runs 70% of the commercial powders so if I wanted to shoot a 70 grain charge I would load 100 grains by volume. Hope this helps and have fun

[Vettepilot]

Steve:

Your powder looks very good. I'm anxious to hear how it works out for you.

You should be able to buy a pack of replacement belts for that HF tumbler. They're known for not lasting long.

That type of tumbling media is supposedly very effective. You might not need to tumble all night. I would be really interested in how a four to 6 hour tumble with your rig compares in performance to your overnight run. (I happen to have all the same gear as you, but no time for testing right now.)

Good luck and nice work,
Vettepilot

[maillemaker]

Thanks Vettepilot, glad it looks good.

I thought I had remembered reading somewhere in this giant thread that 12 hours was a good mill time? Anyway I put it in at 1pm yesterday afternoon, and was not planning on being up at 1am so I just let it go until this morning. I swapped in a second canister and will pull it at 7pm. The tumbler is not strong enough to rotate both canisters at the same time. Just as well as about 100 grams is all I want out in the back yard at a time.

So tonight I will have 200 grams of green powder ready for pressing.

I want to install a pressure gauge on the jack so I can consistently press to a consistent pressure and time, so as to give consistent results. But for now I'm just going to crank it down and let it sit for 10 minutes or so and call it good.

Steve

[ButchC]

maillemaker, I can tell you using the same harbor freight tumbler, I got away with a 3 hour charcoal and 3 hour all component milling with a mix of 32, 44, and 50 round ball. Now I think the deciding factor here might be what your components look like going in. If you have prill KNO3, things will obviously need more time vs powder.