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Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #8041
    Boolit Buddy
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    I put a small batch of 78/12/10 powder into the tumbler this morning. I tested a batch of 77/13/10 against my 75/15/10. The tests were 70 grains by volume out of my .50 GPR flinter. The 75% blend went five shots for an average of 1381 fps. The five shot average of the 77% went 1433 fps for an increased speed of 52 fps. I'll let you know what my chrono says about the 78% stuff.

  2. #8042
    Boolit Master
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    TJ;
    I'll be looking forward to hearing your results on the 78%. I hope it makes the best of all. Thanks for posting your results from today. You're getting good numbers, from my .50 comparison. Carry on!

  3. #8043
    Boolit Bub
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    DB, I was trying the polishing cycle for 18hrs. the powder never looked shiny like those pictures. Did you say that the shine came from graphite? Tried to find the post but lost out. I did throw 80 grains onto my scale after filling and tapping to level then topping off level and it did read 81 grs. So I think the flow was better it took only five grains to level fill the measure after tapping to settle it. Might that give better accuracy if it fills the measure consistently.

  4. #8044
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    Graysmoke:
    I'm not sure, if you are talking about the pics that PianoManA-440 posted, or earlier pics? I did not hear him say that he did or did not graphite his polish. His grains were certainly dark, and certainly polished very well.
    I do believe that the more consistent your powder measures, it should have a positive impact on accuracy. It sounds like yours is up there pretty well, if your measure kicked out 81 grains, for an 80 measure.
    Most everything I have read on Graphite is, that being very high in fixed carbon content, it is actually detrimental to burn rate, although it does regulate the rate, somewhat. (Burn rate can easily be regulated by grain size and density) The down side is, Graphite also causes substantially higher hard fouling, from that high fixed carbon content.
    Some believe (Mad Monk, for one) that it also can hide the presence of moisture under the polished exterior of the powder grains.
    The upside is, it does make powder flow at a much higher rate and does raise loaded density, by settling easier.
    To answer your question; as far as I know, the shine comes from polishing the rough edges and surfaces of the grains, while Graphite will add to the shine and definitely darken the appearance.
    I hope that helped. If I misunderstood, kick it back.

  5. #8045
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    DB, correct it was PMA440 I must have looked right over his post searching for it. His grains are black while mine were gray but I believe harder than just after grinding, and I used dry powder. I-reread the post and he polished right after grinding which had a higher moisture content might have helped put more shine on it.
    On another note, I never tapped my measure to settle it ( that was a no no when I got into makin smoke) but it makes for a more consistent load as I have seen now. Thanks for the reply.

  6. #8046
    Boolit Buddy
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    Also, remember that Linstrum had recommended adjusting the charcoal content based on the ash assay.

  7. #8047
    Boolit Master Linstrum's Avatar
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    Charcoal Ash Assaying Method

    HighUintas - Thanks for bringing up charcoal ash assay. DoubleBuck assayed some Charmin toilet paper charcoal not too long ago, and his results were off the bottom of the charts at something like 0.06% ash, where black powder charcoal ash usually runs between 1.5% and 4%, with 2% to 2.5% about average for sassafras and some of the willows. Why toilet paper charcoal ash is often so low is because the ash minerals have been chemically dissolved-out during the several wood-pulping processes.

    Ash is not deliberately removed from toilet paper, it just happens that the ash is soluble in some of the wood pulp processing chemicals, a happy coincidence for us!

    How the charcoal is made has a bearing on its ash assay because of its creosote content, where the higher the creosote content, the lower the apparent ash content will be, the operative word here is "apparent". How the wood is roasted does not vary the actual ash content contained within the wood by "cooking out" ash, ash can't be cooked-out. Ash is composed mostly of calcium and magnesium salts that have extraordinarily high boiling points up in the 5,000º and 6,500º Fahrenheit range respectively, well above the melting point of iron/steel alloys that are in the 2,900º Fahrenheit range.


    So a search doesn't have to be done to find my old post on assaying charcoal for ash content, here it is again:


    Assay your charcoal for its ash content. If you shoot, you have an accurate powder weighing balance, and that's the only piece of precision equipment you need. How to find ash content is a pretty simple procedure. You will need a steel tin can lid like from a large size soup can, a propane torch, a kitchen stove, and some of your charcoal that has been coarsely powdered. Outdoors, use the propane torch to heat the steel tin can lid red hot to burn off the protective coating, and then scrub and wash the lid to get it clean. Weigh out more or less 50 grains of powdered charcoal, and note its exact weight to a tenth grain. Put the powdered charcoal on the tin can lid and spread it around in an even layer, keeping it away from the edge of the lid. Set the tin can lid and charcoal on a kitchen stove burner at just enough heat so the lid is a dull red heat. The charcoal will ignite and glow red hot, and after a few minutes, carefully sweep the charcoal around with the side of a length of wire, like a straightened large-size paperclip. Keep sweeping the charcoal around every few minutes, being careful not to spill any off the side of the lid. After about twenty minutes, there should be just a light gray ash left. Turn the stove off, and when the lid is cool enough to pick up, brush all of the ash into the powder weighing balance pan and weigh it. As an example, if the charcoal sample originally weighed 47.2 grains, and after burning it off on the stove, the ash weighs 1.8 grains, then 1.8 divided by 47.2 equals 0.0381. Multiplying by 100 gives 3.81% ash. Round-off to 3.8%

    The math used to compensate for ash content is straightforward. Using avocado wood charcoal with 3.8% ash as an example, the math steps are as follows:

    1. 3.8% ash means there is only 96.2% combustible material, 100% minus 3.8% ash leaves 96.2% combustible material.

    2. Convert 96.2% to decimal form that is 0.962

    3. Mathematically invert 0.962 by dividing 1 by 0.962 to find out how much more ash-contaminated charcoal to add to the black powder mix so it comes out at the correct amount of combustible material. 1 divided by 0.962 = 1.03950. Round-off to 1.04

    4. For Black powder using the standard 75 parts potassium nitrate, 15 parts charcoal, 10 parts sulfur:
    The next step is to multiply the 15 parts charcoal by 1.04 to get 15.6 parts of ash-contaminated charcoal. So, the new black powder formula using avocado wood charcoal is 75 parts potassium nitrate, 15.6 parts of ash-contaminated charcoal, and 10 parts sulfur.

    Ignoring rounding-off, the math formulas used give exact values, they are not approximations.

    Ignore that the parts add up to more than 100, since the entire weight now includes the small amount of ash that the charcoal has within it, keeping in mind that there is now the specified 15 parts charcoal, while before compensating for the ash content, there was less than the required 15 parts charcoal.

    Compensating for ash below about 2.5% or 3% is not worth the bother because other things come into play that affect how accurately the ingredients can actually be weighed, such as moisture content and purity. However, there is no harm in compensating for ash content when it is below 3% if you care to, I do. The best you can do is make sure your potassium nitrate, sulfur, and charcoal are all dry before weighing them, as well as pure. I am a chemist, and a good part of what I did was pay attention to details when measuring and weighing things.

    But the main thing is to find some kind of wood that has as little ash as possible, since ash interferes with the black powder burning efficiently, plus ash makes hard barrel deposits that are insoluble in water. Depending on the kind of wood, ash usually has calcium salts in it, most often calcium carbonate that is virtually insoluble in water. Limestone is mostly calcium carbonate, as is marble.

    Informally, the absolute best woods (the guys here have worked hard at finding the best ones, and they have found several that range from promising to sassafras) will produce high-creosote charcoal with 2.5% or less ash. With that said, acceptable results have been obtained with charcoal that had 6% ash. My own cut-off point is 4% ash.

    Assay your charcoal! I found what seemed like the perfect charcoal until I assayed it, it was one-sixth ash – 17 percent! I seem to recall the lowest ash assay so far was 1.5%, so set your sights on that, but 4% will do.
    ~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+
    There is no such thing as too many tools, especially when it comes to casting and reloading.
    Howard Hughes said: "He who has the tools rules".

    Safe casting and shooting!

    Linstrum, member F.O.B.C. (Fraternal Order of Boolit Casters), Shooters.com alumnus, and original alloutdoors.com survivor.

  8. #8048
    Boolit Master
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    Linstrum
    Thank you so much, for reposting the information on Ash assaying. When you originally posted it, most of us were in awe of the simplicity, and importance of knowing that percentage, in our charcoal. I do believe you were the first person to introduce us to that game changing information.
    About the time we were getting that down, here you came back with the ash compensation; which, again, changed the game for the better.
    You have saved myself and a lot of others, much grief, in the quest for viable charcoal woods. My hat is off to you!

  9. #8049
    Boolit Master
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    How do we know that by adjusting for ash content we are not making things worse instead of better. There is no precision in the 75-15-10 ratio so adjusting it for ash content might just make things worse. The ratio was developed with charcoal that had ash so that was baked in in the olden days. I would be inclined to adjust the other way and increase the KNO3 content if the charcoal has low ash content. I think we have seen reported here evidence that increasing the KNO3 and decreasing the Sulphur makes for higher performance. Adding more charcoal when it is high in ash might technically match the 75-15-10 ratio but does not mean the powder will perform better, 75-15-10 is not necessarily optimum. The ash assay is useful in assessing whether it might be wise to add more KNO3 instead of adding more charcoal.

    75-15-10 see the round numbers, each divisible by 5, it is a plus or minus a couple percent rounded off formula, it is really 15-3-2 at the lowest common denominator why not use 30-6-4 or 150-30-20. Crude formula tweaking it a few percent might improve your performance but you can't be sure unless you can test the result. For a pound 5250 gr. - 1050 gr. - 700 gr. or 12 oz. - 2.4 oz. - 1.6 oz.

    Tim
    Last edited by dtknowles; Yesterday at 11:32 AM.
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

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  10. #8050
    Boolit Mold
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    Graysmoke;
    Try tumbling that dry powder with denim or pillow ticking strips. Will remove a super fine dust thats on them and should darken grains up a bit. You should see a slight "shine" or "glint" to your grains when done.
    To get a glaze like in photo you will need to tumble grains while still wet.
    Sorry guys i should have clarified earlier i dont use graphite.

  11. #8051
    Boolit Mold
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    Also i cant grind my pucks. To soft. But they break up with my fingers easy. Then screen them. While shaking screens i put handful of milling media in too. Just on top screen. Helps breaak chunks down. After 15 seconds of shaking what doesnt fall thru gets put in tupperware with media. Snap on lid and give a violent shake.
    Pour back on top screen and start shaking. Repeat till all goes thru top screen. Sounds rough but its waaaaaayyyyyyy easier than trying to grind up those dry pucks.

  12. #8052
    Boolit Bub
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    PianoManA440; Thanks for the reply, I did think you polished while still damp to get the shine. I will polish next batch after pucking and grinding, I will say the powder looks dull black after 19 hrs of rolling not light gray as usual. Soon as I can I’ll shoot some for accuracy. No chrono so just poi results to be seen.
    Graysmoke

  13. #8053
    Boolit Buddy
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    What do you guys think of Berry's plates bullets... 9mm 147gr for milling media? They're really cheap, but I wonder if the copper plating would flake off after using them in the mill for a bit?

  14. #8054
    Boolit Master
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    HighUintas;
    I looked at those same bullets, before I bought the ones I got. I was concerned for the same reason you are.
    This is where and what I bought, but I think they are sold out. 250 count cost me $50.40, delivered here. It is enough to put 125 in each drum, which works great for a half pound of powder, in each. They, so far, are not fazed with over 36 hours of milling on them.
    If these suit you, I will keep an eye out for some, and contact you, if I find more. https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...nose-250-count

  15. #8055
    Boolit Master
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    I am using Berry’s 230 gr .45 cap plated Round nose right now.
    I have been using them for a few months.
    So far , I have seen no damage to them .
    Using the 9 mm ones looks like it will work too. But I just like the heavier bullets. But that is my choice.
    I have the 9mm’s also and may try mixing some in with the .45 bullets and give it a try.
    But the slugs being an odd shape rather than a ball seems to work good.
    They seem to tumble rather than just roll which prevents powder from lumping up .

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check