My homemade black powder

[dondiego]

I think the problem with the electrical sparks is they do not hit the powder they go from the electrode to ground passing around the powder.
Tim

......and they aren't hot!

[dtknowles]

......and they aren't hot!

The ground (barrel/breech/pan) has so much mass that it will not get hot the electrode does not get hot because the spark is leaving not striking. The air in the gap gets hot so if you had a powerful enough spark and a powdery enough fuel (or vapor) it does ignite. I think that is the danger in a spark and black powder, it is dust and static spark. Especially if the dust is what is carrying the charge. Similar to how a flower mill will blow up.

[HamGunner]

I think it was likely a link to a video somewhere way back on this thread that showed attempts to ignite several grades of Black Powder using electrical sparks. The sparks were just pushing the granules aside as it went to ground. Definitely was hitting the granules, but did not transfer the needed heat. Perhaps it would ignite super fine Black Powder or maybe even more likely if the super fine had not been compressed. Gasoline vapor easily ignites with a spark as does flour dust, super fine saw dust, etc., so perhaps the compressed Black needs a much longer or hotter spark. The test that I saw did use thousands of volts for their spark, but it just would not ignite.

[Vettepilot]

Yep. I've seen numerous tests where black powder would not light with an electrical spark. Then, of course, Remington fought the problem with smokeless too. They finally solved it after a fashion, with special primers, but it never caught on. Don't really know why; probably the special primers cost too much.

Too bad electricity won't work--> how cool would it be to never need primers nor caps; just a well charged battery!!

The last primers I bought cost me $222 for 1500 shipped!! Supposedly they're coming back now, but we'll NEVER see them for .02 cents again, that's for sure...

Fiocchi was supposed to build a big plant here in the states, then there's Expansion Industries supposedly working on primers, but nothing ever happens. Probably Liberal road-blocking...

Oh well, maybe I need a Flinter, but I have trouble holding a "primer gun" still for long enough to get off a good shot. Getting old... bah humbug!

;~)

Vettepilot

[Capn Jack]

LAGS,
Thank you for the information. If it's slower than BP, I won't bother playing with it. Right now, I have a pound of PIRODEX I haven't opened yet. My biggest problem now is finding a place to shot.

[indian joe]

If we research those mill blowups (blackpowder mills and some of the flourmill/ grain elevator ones) ya gonna find some heavy duty electrical short circuits involved - dead short whats sposed to be a 10 amp x 240 volt supply - with old fashioned fuse protection instead of ELCB - gets plenty heat going .
The experiments we see with static and other elaborate electric ignition attempts are using high voltage but very low amperage - you need high amps to generate heat enough to ignite blackpowder. Short a 12 volt battery will do it anytime but an electric fence unit ----not.

[indian joe]

Yep. I've seen numerous tests where black powder would not light with an electrical spark. Then, of course, Remington fought the problem with smokeless too. They finally solved it after a fashion, with special primers, but it never caught on. Don't really know why; probably the special primers cost too much.

Too bad electricity won't work--> how cool would it be to never need primers nor caps; just a well charged battery!!

The last primers I bought cost me $222 for 1500 shipped!! Supposedly they're coming back now, but we'll NEVER see them for .02 cents again, that's for sure...

Fiocchi was supposed to build a big plant here in the states, then there's Expansion Industries supposedly working on primers, but nothing ever happens. Probably Liberal road-blocking...

Oh well, maybe I need a Flinter, but I have trouble holding a "primer gun" still for long enough to get off a good shot. Getting old... bah humbug!

;~)

Vettepilot

when I first started shooting blackpowder that was my excuse - I said to a very smart and talented shooter "any fool can shoot off a rest, I just cant hold steady long enough to shoot good standing up" he said two things back 1) they cant you know, a lot of blokes never figured trigger control out 2) nobody holds steady enough to shoot ten ring standing - its all about controlled wobble and trigger control ---he added a third "forget about trying to shoot tens that will happen automatic when you stop shooting fives"

Flinters are the best fun once you get it figured out.

[LAGS]

Flinters are a lot of fun.
So much that I am considering taking my .75 cal Blunderbuss out Quail hunting in October when season opens.
I didn't take it last year.
But did use it two seasons ago.

[DoubleBuck]

If we research those mill blowups (blackpowder mills and some of the flourmill/ grain elevator ones) ya gonna find some heavy duty electrical short circuits involved - dead short whats sposed to be a 10 amp x 240 volt supply - with old fashioned fuse protection instead of ELCB - gets plenty heat going .
The experiments we see with static and other elaborate electric ignition attempts are using high voltage but very low amperage - you need high amps to generate heat enough to ignite blackpowder. Short a 12 volt battery will do it anytime but an electric fence unit ----not.

100% That's why the mill in South America blew up. Non explosion proof switch on an overloaded circuit. 120 volt 10 amp will do it easy. 50,000 volt DC taser etc. won't. But, 12 volt 1,000 amp will. That is basically how chrome plating works. Low voltage and high amperage is an explosion waiting to happen. You can melt a small enough copper wire in two with a 1.5 volt battery. Molten copper will light black powder, every time.

[dtknowles]

Electric match works every time. I use a single 3.7 volt Li Ion battery and fine steel wire. I have not built it into a firearm but it works fine for a fireworks mortar. You would have to replace the wire every once in a while as it would eventually burn out. 50 years ago as a teen I accidentally shorted a very small NiCad battery that was in a hot wheels car I had. I burned my fingers, the wire glowed red hot. Like others have said, its not the volts it is the amps. That tiny battery was only 1.2 volts but it pushed enough current to melt that wire. There is an electrical term call impendence, most old dry cell batteries had very high impedance so if you shorted them you did not get much current, but rechargeable batteries today have very low impedance like a lead acid car or storage battery. They have plenty of cranking amps. Some of them if you short them, they are a bomb.

Back to the electric match. You really only need to wire part not the primer part. A typical electric match has leads, hot wire and primer with the hot wire and primer sealed in a small plastic tube. The primer is usually just fine black powder or flash powder. They are built this way so that the are easier to use, you don't have to make sure the hot wire is in the right place because the priming is trapped next to the wire. In a firearm you would need to make sure the hot wire was not shorted out or open (burned out). Years ago many years ago I read an article where the author made an electric muzzle loader using a glow plug from a model airplane motor. He pulled the platinum hot wire out so it would touch the powder charge. He claimed it worked. I don't remember much of the details. "Lock time" is what I am wondering now. How long between switch on and bang. I think some sort of capacitive discharge circuit would be best so as not to over drive the hot wire and burn it out. With a big capacitor you could use a thicker wire and not worry so much about burning it out but thicker wire would mean longer lock time as more mass of wire takes longer to heat up. We are taking milliseconds but 50 ms is a lot better and 250 ms. With fireworks even a whole second is not too long and you don't worry about the wire burning out, you use a new one for every shot.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/50Pcs-Lot...ed13f842156e28

Tim

[MakeMineA10mm]

Whew!! This thread has been going for over 12 years!!! 7090 posts and 355 pages of information and that’s not counting links, files, and photos!!!

I’ve been chewing on the idea of doing my own black powder for several months now. I have charcoal (mesquite, which I learned is not the best ), KNO3 and Sulfer. Also have a HF double ball mill (rock tumbler) which I’ve been using for wet tumbling brass for a year now, and a pucking die. I watched a series of videos on youtube to base my manufacturing off of. Came back here to CB after a hiatus and find this mega-thread.

So, my comment/question is: in any of these 7090 posts, has anyone described the current “best practices” methods this collective group has come up with through experimenting and sharing information? If so, can someone point me to it?

[Vettepilot]

ACME BLACK POWDER INSTRUCTIONS

INGREDIENTS:

1. Pure potassium nitrate milled very fine. - 75%
2. Pure sulphur milled very fine. - 10%
3. Charcoal milled very fine. - 15%
A. Black Willow
B. Sassafras
C. Red Cedar
D. Grape Vine
E. Others

Cook wood until charred. Beat, pound, grind, mill until fine powder.

Mix ingredients and ball mill for more than 3 hours but less than 2 days.

Do flash test. FUN! (Do away from other powder(s) for best outcome.)

Compress powder. (More than jumping up and down on it required.)

Beat, pound, grind, mill until required grainulation is achieved.

Fireworks and "Sporting", or gun use powder classifications, (and quality!) are different, so don't get confused, then,

Screen grade.

Package and go shoot.

Patents pending.

;~)

Vettepilot

[LAGS]

The basics described in V P's thread are a good start.
I just happen to be teaching another member how to make his own powder.
I loaned him one of my ball mills and gave him some of the items to make his first batch with.
Plus he is playing with the powder we put together.
We made some CIA , some wet screened powder , and I showed him how the powder is Corned.
He hasn't had the time to do much experimenting.
But I think he is hooked and will decide which method he will set his focus on.
Now, He wants me to teach him how to make his own primers.
He has used both my powder and primers and him and his son are very satisfied.
I also showed him how to make charcoal and gave him some Chipped Red Cedar to try out.
I have tried Mesquite Tree wood.
It was functional , but burned slower and left a lot of fouling.

[Vettepilot]

Yeah, I tried Mesquite out too as I've got a ton of it. No good. It went off just fine, but as you say; slow and dirty.

I imagined Wiley Coyote using my "Acme" instructions and making BP in his never ending quest to nail that pesky Roadrunner. It's ok, I didn't get any "laughs" the last time I posted it either...

Unless Youtube took them down, there were some good instructions there sometimes.

:~)

Vettepilot

[Trapper-Jack]

T
The last primers I bought cost me $222 for 1500 shipped!! Supposedly they're coming back now, but we'll NEVER see them for .02 cents again, that's for sure...



Vettepilot

I've started reloading my primers with the H-48 compound. It's a little tedious, but it kind of gets like making your own powder, it's just what you do. After the initial investment, I calculate that it costs about 12 cents per hundred to reload small rifle primers and about 16 cents to reload a hundred large rifle primers. I know they say that the H-48 compound is corrosive but I clean my guns after I shoot them anyway.

[LAGS]

I too use H48 sometimes.
But I prefer the FA42.
It doesn't use the ground glass like H48 but otherwise is the same chemicals.
Just different measurements.
One less chemical or item seems to make a difference.
So the amount of primer powder is all flammable and fires off better.
Both primer powders can be made from Prime All compound that is available.
Just my opinion.

[Trapper-Jack]

I tried using the prime all components in centerfire primers and didn't have that good of success. Only about 60 - 70% fired. I've had 100% success with the H-48 in small rifle primers. The prime all works very will in percussion caps though. I'm only using the three chemicals and not the binder. I'm using acetone with some single based smokeless dissolved in it for activating and binder.

[LAGS]

I had similar results of misfires using Prime All if mixed by their instructions.
They do it by Volume measured in their little scoops.
But the same chemicals of the Prime All, mixed by Weight per the H48 ratios works very well.
I am not going to put down Prime All as it comes and their instructions when used in .22lr cartridges or BP primer caps.
Also using Duco thinned with Acetone seems to work best as a binder from my testing.

[MakeMineA10mm]

ACME BLACK POWDER INSTRUCTIONS

INGREDIENTS:

1. Pure potassium nitrate milled very fine. - 75%
2. Pure sulphur milled very fine. - 10%
3. Charcoal milled very fine. - 15%
A. Black Willow
B. Sassafras
C. Red Cedar
D. Grape Vine
E. Others

Cook wood until charred. Beat, pound, grind, mill until fine powder.

Mix ingredients and ball mill for more than 3 hours but less than 2 days.

Do flash test. FUN! (Do away from other powder(s) for best outcome.)

Compress powder. (More than jumping up and down on it required.)

Beat, pound, grind, mill until required grainulation is achieved.

Fireworks and "Sporting", or gun use powder classifications, (and quality!) are different, so don't get confused, then,

Screen grade.

Package and go shoot.

Patents pending.

;~)

Vettepilot

Thanks VP!

I’ve noted a few things in my research and hit-and-miss reading sections of this mega-thread:
• 76-9-15 can be a slightly cleaner formula
• Corning is aiming for 1.7 to 1.8 grams per CC (Has anyone figured out a way to consistently get here?)
• There’s not been a perfected way to crush pucks (although the grain mill seems most efficient?)
• Screen sizes for sizing the kernals of powder seems a bit variable?
• I have in my notes: Willow, Blackthorn Alder, Red Cedar, Maple, White Pine, and Spruce in descending order of quality. Is Willow only Black Willow? And, I’ve read various takes on the Tree of Paradise(?) being “the best” to “only average.”. I think I have the Tree of Paradise on my new property, which my Forrester called “a junk tree.”

In reading the .pdf linked to the military study of BP in the early to mid 80s, there was something about post sizing tumbling and graphiting which sounded important. I should have saved that .pdf

[Trapper-Jack]

As to my own personal experience, I have used a variety of percentages between the potassium nitrate and charcoal but I've always kept the sulfur at 10%. I've pretty much settled on the 75/15/10 ratios.

My puck density has been running in the 1.65 to 1.8 range. I don't have a gauge to determine how much pressure I'm using to press my pucks.

I usually break up the pucks after they are dried to where they will go through my grain grinder with a wooden hammer handle inside a 3 inch steel cup. It contains the powder without chance of a spark.

I usually shoot a 2F-ish size powder. The screens I use most are passing a #16 and retained on a #30. I've lately been getting about 50 to 60% useable powder per grind. The fines have been going back into the next batch.

Most of the powder I've been shooting has come from a hybrid willow used for wind break on my property. I have access to other willows but haven't tried them yet. This has been performing well for myself and my wife in our flintlocks. I've made some samples made of juniper, spruce quaking aspen and cedar charcoal but the jury is out on them until I get a chronograph.