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Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #1881
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    .....
    Last edited by indian joe; 02-21-2018 at 11:53 PM.

  2. #1882
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    Great idea Indian Joe. I have several batches I have made & that is a great idea. I will do that for sure.

    Fly

  3. #1883
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    Doesn't help over spans of time. What happens if you use all of one batch, how do you make sure the next batch is the same? if you have half of an existing batch mix, and you make more, and it is different, you will now dilute your old batch by the new batch.

    This is not a problem you can solve by batch mixing. It's OK if you want to hit a 6" circle at 25 yards, but I will use my powder for my club shoots where the guns better be stacking balls or nearly so or else you aren't in 4th place or better. My (last batch) of powder, now all shot up, shot better than goex for this purpose. New batch does not yet. This is something that is characterizable by result, and implementable by process. But without measurement, it's useless.

    And batch mixing is a process that has zero control. Imagine if your goex was made this way!

  4. #1884
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    I don't know as I would hold Goex up as an example for anything. Serious competitors are using Swiss or Old Eynsford, at least in Long Range ML. Any variation will show up at 500+ yds. I would stack any of my home made up against Goex at 100yd or less. That same powder doesn't do worth a darned at 500yd but is still pretty reasonable at 300yd. Under 100yd my hold is a lot bigger problem that the powder itself, regardless of who made it. Just saying that it is all relative to what you are doing. I use Commercial for all of my competition but it is all 300yd+. My HM shines for hunting and gives a lot of self satisfaction. If you can use your HM for competition and do well with, my hat is off to you. Please share your secret.
    I have to order OE since I'm down to my last half can and a case is now $500 and the Swiss is nearly $700. Considering the cost to go to an out of town match and be competitive, powder is the least of the money spent and the consistency is worth it.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  5. #1885
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    Yes 90% of my shooting is under 200 yards. So be on that my home made works for me. Soooooooooooo much cheaper.

    Fly

  6. #1886
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    For me, 100% under 100 yards, and target only to 50. So home made has a chance to compete with commercial. Especially if I put a modicum of effort into uniformity beyond batch mixing. I can see how things would be different for a BPCR shooter.

  7. #1887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz330 View Post
    I don't know as I would hold Goex up as an example for anything. Serious competitors are using Swiss or Old Eynsford, at least in Long Range ML. Any variation will show up at 500+ yds. I would stack any of my home made up against Goex at 100yd or less. That same powder doesn't do worth a darned at 500yd but is still pretty reasonable at 300yd. Under 100yd my hold is a lot bigger problem that the powder itself, regardless of who made it. Just saying that it is all relative to what you are doing. I use Commercial for all of my competition but it is all 300yd+. My HM shines for hunting and gives a lot of self satisfaction. If you can use your HM for competition and do well with, my hat is off to you. Please share your secret.
    I have to order OE since I'm down to my last half can and a case is now $500 and the Swiss is nearly $700. Considering the cost to go to an out of town match and be competitive, powder is the least of the money spent and the consistency is worth it.

    Bob
    Dont know whether there is a secret as such - you wrote "consistency"and I believe that is the key
    * I use the best ingredients I can source - I have an advantage over most guys in that I have long term experience in sourcing food grade or technical grade chemicals for foliar fertiliser use - (field crops not hoochy cooch - but those guys know the ropes too) ----soooo 99% pure or else
    * a decent ball mill - we all know that - its a waste of time without
    * tried the alcohol mixes - forget it - waste of time
    * I make my meal in the winter - 20 - 30 pounds
    * Ditto for charcoal - cant do outside fires here in hot weather due to wildfire hazard - so the coal is made in winter also
    * Granulate in the late summer - I have time to do it - low humidity - some breeze out there - the stuff grains up nice and drys quick - better powder I think.
    * Everything gets stored in airtight containers with duct taped lids - even if its just for a short time - If your stuff clumps in the mill - theres moisture in there - dry it out!
    * Willow charcoal - I got lucky - we got plenty willow (its the hybrid willow)
    sooo - my first serious outing I walked off the stage with three first places shot with my own powder - yeah it was a rondy shoot - short range - but I shot each days stages without a proper clean of my flinter - got lucky - had a good shoot -
    chrono testing - velocity per grain is good - in between Goex and Swiss -
    have not bit the boolit with my 45/70 sharps yet (we shoot a 500yard match) - but preliminary testing I have shot some three shot strings with velocity variance in the single digit range - some others not so good (about 25fps hi shot to low shot) - more attention to detail might sort that out - maybe not - testing and careful loading will tell.
    I cannot put a number on the self satisfaction level !!!!!
    I bought a chronograph - always wanted one - it has helped a lot with development - turned up some serious info around loading tchnique with the muzzle loaders - that consistency thing again!!!!
    Guys here shoot Wano (you call him Schutzen) - I never liked it - theres a bit of personal baggage attached to my dislike tho
    You couldnt make powder to save money unless ya had a very low payin job - but the most fun I have is all the know it alls tellin me I gonna blow meself up - the same fellers are quite happy to decant powder from bulk containers and all that stuff - the making process is no more or less dangerous than handling the same quantity of bought powder.

  8. #1888
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    (quote) You couldnt make powder to save money unless ya had a very low payin job. Funny you said that Joe. Maybe true, but I think you
    are like me & most on this form. Making powder is never a job for me. It is what I enjoy doing as loading my own ammo. I figure my cost
    of a lb of home made powder at about $2 . Loading my own ammo about 5 cents a round by casting my own bullets.

    I do buy ammo & powder from time to time but 90% of my shooting is homemade.

    Fly

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    I have tried my HM in both cartridge and my LR Gibbs. 300 and 500yd respectively. I was actually pretty impressed with the 300yd shots. At 500 from the Gibbs the vertical was too much to make it practical, and the recoil from those massive powder charges was intense, and I'm not that recoil conscious. Grain for grain by weight my powder produces more velocity than Swiss.
    As far as powder cost, when I look at what it costs to go to an out of town match, and they are all out of town for me, the powder is a pittance. $50 match fee and motel room for 1 or 2 days plus mileage and meals. Most matches don't use a full pound of powder so the difference between $2 and $20 is pretty negligible in the over all scheme of things. I'm not all that great of a competitor but I find a nut every once in a while and the difference in me finishing where I think I should be and back of the pack is tough on my ego. I do this for fun but missing is only fun for a short period of time.
    I enjoy being self sufficient and enjoy hunting with my powder and short range shooting and it works great for that. Do I wish that I could make powder good enough to compete with, absolutely, but I do have other things in my life that takes time away from that pursuit. When it gets to be work, it is no longer fun.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  10. #1890
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    Fly
    You pretty much got it - its not a job - rather a pleasant diversion from work
    I have a pschological aversion to the price of Swiss (well over a hundred bucks a kilo here) and can make better powder than wano for sure - have said lots of times the clean shooting really got me going on homemade - must have just got lucky with the whole process I guess. I read a lot before I started - on one of the pyro forums first then graduated to here . Cost ? I reckon about $2 a kilo for homemade but my cost for lead is higher --well -- I have a decent stash and no clue what scrap price is really - ingot lead price puts my sharps at 20cents per for the lead . Am real lucky I can open the door and shoot anytime I really want .

  11. #1891
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    Joe do you have a metal scrap yard buy you. I buy ole lead pipe & sheet roofing lead at those places. That,s very soft lead for muzzle loaders.
    I buy wheel weights for harder lead, there for my military rifles.

    Fly

  12. #1892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz330 View Post
    I have tried my HM in both cartridge and my LR Gibbs. 300 and 500yd respectively. I was actually pretty impressed with the 300yd shots. At 500 from the Gibbs the vertical was too much to make it practical, and the recoil from those massive powder charges was intense, and I'm not that recoil conscious. Grain for grain by weight my powder produces more velocity than Swiss.
    As far as powder cost, when I look at what it costs to go to an out of town match, and they are all out of town for me, the powder is a pittance. $50 match fee and motel room for 1 or 2 days plus mileage and meals. Most matches don't use a full pound of powder so the difference between $2 and $20 is pretty negligible in the over all scheme of things. I'm not all that great of a competitor but I find a nut every once in a while and the difference in me finishing where I think I should be and back of the pack is tough on my ego. I do this for fun but missing is only fun for a short period of time.
    I enjoy being self sufficient and enjoy hunting with my powder and short range shooting and it works great for that. Do I wish that I could make powder good enough to compete with, absolutely, but I do have other things in my life that takes time away from that pursuit. When it gets to be work, it is no longer fun.

    Bob
    .....
    Last edited by indian joe; 02-21-2018 at 11:54 PM.

  13. #1893
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    When I saw youtube videos of guys using Fly's puck maker I knew pressing was the way commercial powder is made, and looking into historical methods I came upon a website that showed a vertical crusher to break up the pucks. This had occurred to me before that as a better way to crush the pucks up without producing large amounts of fines that either need to be recycled back into pucks or used for flintlocks or other uses for fine powder.

    The crusher they used in the Confederacy used 4 or 5 horizontal ribbed rolls adjustable as to the distance they are apart, the pressed powder being fed down through the rolls from above. I know it would be a lot of work but bronze or even 7075 rolls with corrugations, each roll timed to it's counterpart, so they would pull the pressed of pucks into the rolls. Below the rolls a series screens from large to fine mesh and at the bottom a pan for recycling.
    I'm getting the bug to make my own, I have lots of pine crates, but of course I'd be wanting to exceed the speed of commercial powder, so I may have to buy willow charcoal which take away some of the financial incentive, it's expensive.

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  15. #1895
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    Bob wow!!! more hoot than Swiss. Whats the secret to that ?
    yeah vertical stringing is velocity variation and thats crucial at long range -- the angle of approach even at 500 yards from say a 45/70 --- its a lob shot - 50 fps means a miss. I am hoping the chrony will lead me to the right place. I shoot pretty good if I can walk out there knowing that the gun and the load is 100% right - but the slightest bit of doubt turns to blame / excuses / and poor shooting - and I agree missing is not fun for long at all.
    I had some hassles initially with homemade in flinter - still really dont know whats it about - its a little 45 I built on a cheap belgium barrel shoots quite nice but its a 1:48 twist so its a bit load sensitive - I got my homemade up to equal velocity as the commercial powder I was using but was still shooting low - took it to a rondy last year before I got it sorted - cheapskating on flints I had trouble with misfiring on my second shot - eventually it went off with a serious hangfire - I was about 4inches over the mark and going up but still had my eyes open and nailed the bull ! several fellers congratulated me as I moved back to reload - one says man ya must have nerves of steel - thats the best hold on a hangfire I ever saw! - I sez no mate you just saw the greatest fluke shot - but that one bit of luck got me sighted in for the shoot and I did ok - but the kicker - no matter what I did I couldnt get that rifle up on the mark with my powder and its not lack of velocity - checked that with the chrono several times - its a skinny long barrel full wood - must just be some crazy vibration thing going on - I ended up cutting new sights for it to fix it. Still dont know why but it works.
    I have no idea but that is from a cartridge rifle and I can't get the weight in my powder as Swiss into the case. 52gr of my powder is a case full and that gives me a 1200fps velocity with a 400gr boolit. Swiss gives me 1275 from 60+gr with the same boolit. The last couple of years I have been using Old Eynsford powder for competition.
    Joe where are you located?

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  16. #1896
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz330 View Post
    I have no idea but that is from a cartridge rifle and I can't get the weight in my powder as Swiss into the case. 52gr of my powder is a case full and that gives me a 1200fps velocity with a 400gr boolit. Swiss gives me 1275 from 60+gr with the same boolit. The last couple of years I have been using Old Eynsford powder for competition.
    Joe where are you located?

    Bob
    .....
    Last edited by indian joe; 02-21-2018 at 11:55 PM.

  17. #1897
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    Quote Originally Posted by partsproduction View Post
    When I saw youtube videos of guys using Fly's puck maker I knew pressing was the way commercial powder is made, and looking into historical methods I came upon a website that showed a vertical crusher to break up the pucks. This had occurred to me before that as a better way to crush the pucks up without producing large amounts of fines that either need to be recycled back into pucks or used for flintlocks or other uses for fine powder.

    The crusher they used in the Confederacy used 4 or 5 horizontal ribbed rolls adjustable as to the distance they are apart, the pressed powder being fed down through the rolls from above. I know it would be a lot of work but bronze or even 7075 rolls with corrugations, each roll timed to it's counterpart, so they would pull the pressed of pucks into the rolls. Below the rolls a series screens from large to fine mesh and at the bottom a pan for recycling.
    I'm getting the bug to make my own, I have lots of pine crates, but of course I'd be wanting to exceed the speed of commercial powder, so I may have to buy willow charcoal which take away some of the financial incentive, it's expensive.
    .....
    Last edited by indian joe; 02-21-2018 at 11:55 PM.

  18. #1898
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    Bob
    We are pretty close to the same result I think - what I found with the homemade it will take way more compression than commercial - goes to that lack of density problem I think - in my 44/40 I just fill the case to the top, pouring from my powder horn, run it through a compression die and load - thats 33 grains weight (maybe 33.5) --If I want more I can tip a LEE 5cc measure in after the first compression and squish it down again before I add the boolit - thats 39 grains - - its no more heavy compression than 39grains of Goex (my Goex is old though - came out of the Moosic plant mid 1990's and its 5FA) --- most fellers measure compression by distance (one tenth inch or whatever) rather than by pressure or weight you - might find homemade does ok with much more compression? mine did.
    I tried doing more than one compression cycle in my 40-65s but the accuracy went to hell in a hand basket so I gave up on that idea. Besides I use my powder for hunting and the couple deer that I shot sure couldn't tell the difference between 1200 and 1275fps.

    Bob
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  19. #1899
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boz330 View Post
    I tried doing more than one compression cycle in my 40-65s but the accuracy went to hell in a hand basket so I gave up on that idea. Besides I use my powder for hunting and the couple deer that I shot sure couldn't tell the difference between 1200 and 1275fps.

    Bob
    .....
    Last edited by indian joe; 02-21-2018 at 11:56 PM.

  20. #1900
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    Seems like there are no rules for level of compression with blackpowder (other than we need enough to know we got a full case under the boolit) I was surprised at how much my homemade took and still shot ok - (velocity - shot to shot) - I woulda thought leaning on it as hard as I did would blow accuracy ----- didnt seem to. Still have testing to do with my sharps and need it done soon (we shoot comp at easter) - that will be a whole nuther deal - will post results when I get done . -- (I am located in Australia - you asked a couple posts ago)
    cheers
    Joe
    I thought that you probably did when you mentioned the Wano powder. A good friend was just down there in September for the World Long Range ML Chapionships. They really enjoyed themselves, other than he didn't shoot quite as well as he did in here 2015. Here he walked off with 9 individual medals and 3 silver plates for Aggregate Scores, which essentially made him the world champ with an original rifle.
    Like you I found that the HM compresses very easily and that's why I tried doing several compressions to get more powder in the case but accuracy went down hill in a hurry, never did quite figure out why.
    One wood that I use for charcoal is called Tree of Heaven and I've had very good luck with it and it gives me 50fps more velocity than Black Willow. It is an invasive species here in the States and I have it all over my farm. I looked it up and it is also in Australia mainly along the coastal region. It grows very fast, you can almost stand and watch it grow. Might be something to look into if willow gets hard to find.

    Bob
    Last edited by Boz330; 01-25-2018 at 10:00 AM.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check