My homemade black powder

[indian joe]

One word of caution.
I got several Pots from second hand stores or swap meets that were "Pot Metal".
They cracked are melted when I tried to smelt lead or Zinc.
Use thinner Steel or stainless steel pots to do any smelting or casting.
Did you know , " Pot Metal " is made with steel smelted with Zinc ?

Hey Lags
I tried melting boolit alloy in a stainless pot one time - dunno what happened there but I did not like what I was seeing in the pot at all - thought maybe some of the chromium or nickel was trying to alloy with the mix? Anyways I heaved the pot and remelted the metal in cast iron did a few fluxing and stirrings and it was ok - banned stainless cook pots for melting lead at my place because of the look of that mix ..........................
I had made a dandy little melting pot from steel - a piece of five inch pipe with a 1/8 plate bottom welded on then I gave it to my son - then forgot where I put it
Now I use a cast iron pot for casting - holds about 40 pounds

[LAGS]

I prefer cast Iron pots too.
I have a couple that my wife was going to trash.
I have not experienced what you did with a Stainless Steel pot.
But I mostly just smelt down range scrap in the one stainless pot that I have.
The reason I prefer Cast Iron is it retains heat evenly from bottom to top.
Stainless or aluminum will not.

[indian joe]

Now that's funny!! Ya made me lose a mouthful of my Gin and tonic.

But wait... RAIN in Phoenix??? Surely you jest...

Trying to re-melt my "ZAMAC" as we speak. It's being stubborn. This is ending up taking a good bit of propane. Think I'll stick to good old fashioned lead once I make it through this fiasco.

I had read about a guy casting zinc with a 700 watt electric burner in under an hour. I don't believe that now...

Vettepilot

VP ....well yre havin fun - nothing more important than that and the more grey hair we get (or the more falls out) the more important having fun gets
I been grinning from the sidelines while all this goes on -
bit of a sidetrack here - the turkey fryer reminded me of a mate I used to shoot with - had a lectric melt pot the spout valve was a bit suss on it - last time round he left it full and as it cooled out the spout most have came open just a smidge - so mrs has gone down town for a quilting bee or some such, its cold out, he decides to make roundball in the kitchen, nice warm room air conditioned, exhaust fan to take the fumes away, she will be away all afternoon, he sets up the (full) electric pot on the brand new stove with his molds and gear on a towel on the counter right close - phone rings in the nextroom - they get into a long yarn about how he builds his flintlock rifle to convert to capper and back - not worried about the lead pot its got a thermostat - he figured later the pot must have all melted before the bit of lead blocking the spout did cuz the whole durn thing was dribbled down the stove front and even out onto the tiled floor - right about then she walks in singing - the "do" she went to is cancelled - he said it put a whole new meaning to "honey I'm home" ............divorce came about five years later .

So contrary to the best advice of a lot of good folk here - the last few years I have ground about 40 pound of meal with soft lead muzzle loader balls as media ----well heck its what I had and I'm lazy ......they getting a bit tired looking, some of em not real round anymore, and I guess at some point I will need to do this properly (might get another 20 pound done but that will be the end of it I reckon)
Being that I am inherently lazy tell me what you think of this plan
copper tubing cut lengths about a foot long
stand em up in holes bored in wooden racks of 2x4 (those will be one use throw aways)
really hot lead + preheat the tubes
fill one at the time - they should fill out ok ?
then cut the tubing using a roller tubing cutter with the lead core intact
or would you skip that last step and use a drop saw ? much quicker

Or do I just buy a six hole LEE mold and get into it with some hard alloy (got some linotype) quicker than cutting the tube ?

[LAGS]

Now back to the powder.
My last batches that I made in the last few weeks came out.
Most of the Pressed Powder was 75 to 80 percent the weight by volume to Goex of the same granulation.
My screened powder is running about 65 percent of weight by volume as the same granulation of Goex

[Fly]

Where are you guys getting your wheel weights. Are the tire shops still selling it or giving it away?

Fly

[EMC45]

Got my "tree of heaven" charcoal made last night. Used a coffee can with a double layer of tin foil wired on top as a rendering can. I set the can on my portable fire pit after the kids roasted marshmallows. Worked perfect. All black and light as air.

[LAGS]

I haven't gotten any wheel weights in the past two years.
But there is a scrap yard here in Phoenix which is actually the company I worked for a First corporate office.
They would give me a deal.
They sold me scrap lead and wheel weights at 20 cents a pound.
But I didn't buy too many hundreds of pounds since I was being given lead Flashing scrap on my construction sites by our roofers.
But a friend just gave me 30 pounds of Range Lead he got from an indoor Air Rifle Range.
I must have about 3 to 4 hundred pounds of lead or my smelted up alloys out in my shed right now.
And that isn't counting the Boolits that I already cast and have in stock

[Vettepilot]

Well, on my (mis) adventure, I guess it just wasn't meant to be. I am normally such a perfectionist and so detail oriented, but I really messed up this time and it's embarrassing for sure. First, the problem with the aluminum pot, and filling my turkey fryer with zinc alloy. Then the (mis) adventure, and follies, continued the next day...

First off, it took a long time and a bunch of heat to get that bottom melted the rest of the way out of that aluminum pot, along with the melted/congealed zinc attached to it. But finally I got that done, and thought; "OK, NOW we're getting somewhere!!" So I added the rest of my zinc weights, along with the melted spilled alloy I had gotten off the patio floor, and with the burner turned ALL the way up, off we went.

For like THREE HOURS!!

That stuff just WOULD NOT melt!! I'm a stubborn cuss, but finally I gave up. I dumped the whole mess out, and closed up shop on another very discouraging day. I did manage to sneak a little melted alloy from around the edges of the pot, and casted about 20 of the little guys, but I have a BUNCH more to cast. Those 20 do look pretty good, but the rest of my casting medium is now an ugly slag pile out in the dirt!! The whole bottom of my cast iron pan was glowing red; visible even in direct daylight!

Then to add insult to injury, I got really, really sick. I spent a wonderful evening and most of the night wondering if I was going to survive. Really, really miserable. I had been monitoring the temp on the side of that cast iron pan, and it never got over about 950 degrees, and I never saw any smoke, but yeah, I got zinc poisoned. Now today, I see the tell tale; the insides of the pot are all white.

Sometimes when I first wake up in the morning, I have epiphanies, and the answer to a problem pops into my head. This morning, I figured it out. I had sorted all those weights into "Lead, Good, Keep", and "Not Lead, Get Rid Of". Now you guys have it too huh??

So I grabbed a magnet, ran out to the slag pile, and sure enough, it's over half steel!! No wonder it wouldn't melt, and boy do I feel STUPID!!!

So, yeah, I'm with you my friend Indian Joe; gonna stick with lead from here on...

Lags, I was just teasing about the rain in Phoenix. I know all about the monsoons. You should have seen how good they were back in the '60's!! (Well, maybe you did.)

No-Zinc-No-Steel-Vettepilot.

[swamp]

I hate it when that happens. No one to blame.
swamp

[indian joe]

Now back to the powder.
My last batches that I made in the last few weeks came out.
Most of the Pressed Powder was 75 to 80 percent the weight by volume to Goex of the same granulation.
My screened powder is running about 65 percent of weight by volume as the same granulation of Goex

just for comparison (I use a 45/70 shell tapped down - usually one of those hanging around the bench)
Goex 5FA = 84 grains
My FFFg = 76 grains (Fg was same = 76 grains)
My FFFg screened = 65 grains
I get 90 % and 77% (surprised me a bit - but relies on my ability to work a calculator which could be a bit suspect)

Hybrid Willow charcoal proly burnt a little cool, good KNO3 and Suphur - the made powder is dead dry, still no clumping after over a year in storage
Pretty happy with the whole thing really, my 44/40 is ticking along at 1260FPS with a 200grainer, the big cartridges (45/75 and 45/70) are getting good velocity and ES below ten on the chrony - never thought when I started out I would get to this point.

[Fly]

The funny thing is reading those post about guys having trouble finding real Black Powder, but do not want to make there own.
I have always said if I had to shoot the fake stuff I would sell all my BP guns. That is the fun of this shooting sport for me anyway.

Fly

[LAGS]

Looks like I need to work on the compression of my powder more if you are getting that high of weight comparisons.
But even at my lower percentages , the powder works great.

[Vettepilot]

If one is using pure potassium nitrate, and pure sulphur, I would think that once your compression hits the point where the sulphur melds into the mix, any higher compression would be moot and not increase ultimate density. Theoretically, after that, I would think the ultimate density would depend on the molecular make up of the particular charcoal used.

All just conjecture, and what do I know; I can't tell zinc from steel!!

Vettepilot

[LAGS]

The density seems to more related to the moisture used.
Too little , it won't compress and become dense.
Too much , it just squishes around and doesn't stay compacted.
I have 30 years experience in compacting soil for construction.
Different dirt's take different amounts of water to compact and not be just Mud.
2% above optumium moisture is the general rule.

[LAGS]

Testing my powder again today , this time using a 45/70 case as a measure.
The Goex 3Fg that I have that is Over 30 years measures out to 78 grains in the case.
I remeasured several pounds of powder that I have and got an average of 77% for my screened powder and 80% for pressed powder.
But the batch I made and pressed Yesterday came out a Consistent 85%
And some old homemade screened powder that I remill then Re Pressed came out to 85%.
So if I want to up the density of the screened powder that I already have , I can just reprocess it and Press it.
That can come in handy if I like end up with a ton of say , 3f and want more 2F.
Just repress it and regrind it.

[indian joe]

Testing my powder again today , this time using a 45/70 case as a measure.
The Goex 3Fg that I have that is Over 30 years measures out to 78 grains in the case.
I remeasured several pounds of powder that I have and got an average of 77% for my screened powder and 80% for pressed powder.
But the batch I made and pressed Yesterday came out a Consistent 85%
And some old homemade screened powder that I remill then Re Pressed came out to 85%.
So if I want to up the density of the screened powder that I already have , I can just reprocess it and Press it.
That can come in handy if I like end up with a ton of say , 3f and want more 2F.
Just repress it and regrind it.

Lags
We not hardly any different - 85% vs 90% and I have gone as far as I can go with mine !
I used a fired 45/70 shell and I tapped it down pretty good
It I scoop or pour into a new or resized shell I get 79 grains of the 5FA
Our screened powder is spot on the same percent - thats interesting
The stuff shoots good is the main thing eh!

[indian joe]

The density seems to more related to the moisture used.
Too little , it won't compress and become dense.
Too much , it just squishes around and doesn't stay compacted.
I have 30 years experience in compacting soil for construction.
Different dirt's take different amounts of water to compact and not be just Mud.
2% above optumium moisture is the general rule.

Lot of people doing road construction out here still dont understand that - I often drive over new works and nominate to my missus where the first pothole in the bitumen will be - guy in the water truck wasnt paying attention.

[LAGS]

I filled my 45/70 case with a Scoop and tapped it on the side before leveling off the top.
I didn't want to get into compressing the powder into the case more than it will settle sort of on its own.
Plus it closer duplicates how I would measure things in the field.
So we are pretty darn close on the measurements.
As a superintendent in construction., It was my job to keep an eye on the guy on the water truck.
Both for compacting the soil , and keeping the dust down to avoid fines from the Government Air Quality Board.
I also had to watch the inspector Test the soil for compaction.

[Vettepilot]

Then there's the problem of it raining before compaction, washing out all your fines... now there's a hassle!

Got my equipment pretty much cleaned up from the zinc mess. Now to get busy and cast with lead WW.

I had rounded up all the bits to make a really nice tumbler, but the other day I scored an old treadmill. I'm thinking that might make a GREAT tumbler with it's pieces. I'll let ya know when I tear it apart.

Vettepilot

[LAGS]

I see no relationship with it raining and compaction.
Maybe if it is moist or humid outside you might just mix in a little less water.
Mainly because the moisture in your powder will not evaporate as quick.
But where did the washing out or seperating the fines come from.
Sulpher is the only ingredient that is not Water Soluable.
You have to end up with so much water that it is Running Off where it will resolve the KN03 and it gets poured off with the water if you try and drain it off.
You add only enough water to get your mix Damp.
If it gets Glossy or water squeezes out when you smash it together , then there is too much water.