Load DataMidSouth Shooters SupplyRotoMetals2Wideners
Lee PrecisionReloading EverythingInline FabricationRepackbox
Titan Reloading
Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 184

Thread: Annealing Jackets

  1. #161
    Banned

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    1,129
    Gentlemen,
    I have read on here about annealing prior to swaging. I have seen alot of very creative ways to do so. I too came up with a way that is very efficient. I use my hot plate. I load it up with .40 cases, usually about 100 or so then I put the cores in. We all know that lead melts at 621 degrees so I know I am getting them at least that hot. Maybe hotter.
    My question is 2 fold. 1] Is that hot enough to anneal and 2] how long do I need to let them sit at that temp before annealing is complete?
    As usual thanks in advance for your help.

    Russ

  2. #162
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    113
    General rule of thumb to anneal brass is...red hot.
    __________________________
    Thanks,
    ---Frank---

  3. #163
    Boolit Man
    kc3ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    central PA
    Posts
    94

    citric acid

    Quote Originally Posted by BT Sniper View Post
    Source for those looking for bulk citric acid

    http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=citric

    Lemi shine also works well.

    Thought I would post it here so I can find it again too

    GOod shooting

    BT
    I know this is a good bit late, but I just found this on Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D50XHPC?psc=1

    2 lbs for $10.99 and free shipping if you have Amazon Prime.

  4. #164
    Boolit Man
    kc3ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    central PA
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeInFlorida View Post
    $400??? Are you nuts????

    Get a BRAND new Lee 20 pound dipper pot for UNDER $100, and do even more, per batch, than you'd ever do with the used knife blade annealer.
    The Lee pot version is even designed for the exact perfect temperature range!!!!

    What do you think of using the Lyman dipper? I think it might be 10lb, but it should go to the same temp. Comments?

    By the way, I'm waiting for my Richard Corbin swagging set up as I type this. Getting the Sea Girt press, .223 3 die set and the 22lr case de-rimmer.

  5. #165
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    14
    Interesting and learned something new. Thanks

  6. #166
    Boolit Man
    kc3ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    central PA
    Posts
    94
    Just to add a little to this thread. I bit the bullet (so to speak) and purchased a "RapidFire Pro-L" kiln for right at $400. It will take the temp up to 2200F if you want it to. And it will reach that temp in about 3-4 minutes. It has a programmable controller and a thermocouple to read the internal heat. It only takes 1500 watts to run it, and is small enough to carry around. That said, it IS small, and will not take a large load of brass (the internal size is 6x5.5x6 inches). I use a large can to hold my brass in it fits inside easily. Now, I have used it a couple of times and ran it up to 800F. Is that enough? Or is it too high or too low? I don't want to "cook" the brass, but I do want it fully annealed. Any suggestions are welcome. And thanks for the information I've already gleaned from this thread.

  7. #167
    Boolit Master Pee Wee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Debary, Florida Volusia County
    Posts
    596
    Duke in florida and I anneal in a lee 20lb dipper pot that he got, put in a couple of hand fulls. I made a cover for it out of thick piece of steel plate and cook for 15 min. and they glow red and are done.
    NRA LIFE MEMBER
    ILSA MEMBER
    NRA RANGE SAFETY OFFICER

  8. #168
    In Remembrance

    DukeInFlorida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    East and South of you
    Posts
    3,566
    UPDATE to this discussion..........

    Pee Wee, Eddie P, and I have recently purchased a Paragon Jewelry style kiln. It is an electric kiln, runs on simple 115 V, 15 amps, 600 watts, and has a full digital controller. It's capable of temperatures from room temp to 2,000 degrees F. The volume inside is sufficient for annealing much larger quantities of brass than the Lee 20 pound dipper pot was. And, since this kiln is capable of controlling a specific "soak" time (when the brass gets to the 800 degrees, we can have it stay at that temperature for any amount of time we want), we can get the brass as dead soft as possible.

    We'll be making a custom stainless steel mesh container for holding the brass, such that it will fit inside.

    It's also discussed in another thread:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...able-Top-Kilns

    Here's what we got, used, for under $500:
    http://www.bigceramicstore.com/parag...ries-kiln.html

    We got ours from eBay.


    NRA Life Member
    NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

    Author of a book on reloading
    ILSA MEMBER http://www.internationallawnsteelsho...ssociation.com
    NRA RANGE SAFETY OFFICER


  9. #169
    Boolit Buddy Faret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    South Central Wisconsin
    Posts
    472
    At 800 degrees how long are you letting it soak?

  10. #170
    In Remembrance

    DukeInFlorida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    East and South of you
    Posts
    3,566
    It doesn't require a lot of soak. Five minutes maybe. However, this kiln is all new to me, and I'll be doing a larger batch in this than ever before. So, to make sure that the inner brass gets up to temp, we may allow a few minutes, check them, and then proceed from there. It's the inner brass (protected from heat by the outer brass) that we are concerned about.

    What's nice is that we can do all sorts of things with this kiln. Stress relieving, annealing, melting, etc.


    NRA Life Member
    NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

    Author of a book on reloading
    ILSA MEMBER http://www.internationallawnsteelsho...ssociation.com
    NRA RANGE SAFETY OFFICER


  11. #171
    Boolit Buddy


    R.Ph. 380's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    RIGHT HERE
    Posts
    453
    I've been taking my brass to 10000F for 10 minutes. Works for me.

    Bill
    NRA PATRON LIFE MEMBER

    Space for Witty Signature Line FOR RENT...........Cheap

  12. #172
    Boolit Buddy Fla9-40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    154
    Well I lucked up and found a small electric Paragon kiln on craigslist for a song!

    It uses "Cones"
    (http://www.clay-king.com/kiln_suppli...ric_cones.html it's the SRB Small Cones "Junior Cones" )
    to determine the working temp but I would like to get a thermometer or probe type Thermocouple ....
    does anyone have a suggestion and a link to good ones they have used?

    I have tried to read all the post on this thread for the answers but man that's loads of reading!

    My question is do you put the brass in the Kiln while it is warming up or after it gets to the desired temperature?

    Looks like 1000 F is the target temp for about 10 minutes, so do you leave the brass in the kiln while it cools down or take them out to air cool?
    It Is Intuitively Obvious To The Most Casual Observer With The Least Amount Of Experience

    My Feedback
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hlight=Fla9-40

  13. #173
    Moderator



    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Oregon Coast
    Posts
    10,248
    Try some of the ceramics forums for the answers about the temperature probe. My kiln was a ceramics kiln, and the previous owner updated it with a probe and controller that he got online somewhere.

    I allow the brass to come up to temperature with the kiln, since putting a pan of brass inside a 1,000 degree F kiln can get pretty tricky, and I put mine in with the cores in them so they'll bond. My brass jackets are all standing up with the cores inside, so I don't want to have to fiddle with them in those kinds of temperatures.

    I let the kiln cool overnight with the brass and cores inside. Even after setting for about 10 to 12 hours with no current applied and the lid closed, the interior is still over 250 degrees F, so use caution when removing what's inside. I used a handheld infrared temperature reader to find how hot they were the first time before I lifted my trays out, and I'm glad I did.

    Here's a picture of a tray after it's removed from the kiln:



    And here's a picture of the same tray prior to being loaded into the kiln and before the kiln was turned on:



    Here's a picture of the updated controller and temperature probe the previous owner used on my kiln:



    I use a temperature of 1,125 degrees F., since that's what Starline uses to anneal their brass between operations. I figured they'd been in the business a long time and had done all the research, so there's no sense in me doing my own. They know what they're doing, so I just borrowed their knowledge.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  14. #174
    Boolit Buddy Fla9-40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    154
    Thanks Fred for the information.

    It does make more sense to let the Kiln cool down and not having to mess with hot trays/bowls to get them out.

    I did go online to the company that sells parts and accessories for the Kiln I have and did find hand held temperature meters that come with probes that are not that bad of price!

    Thanks again for the help!
    It Is Intuitively Obvious To The Most Casual Observer With The Least Amount Of Experience

    My Feedback
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hlight=Fla9-40

  15. #175
    In Remembrance - Super Moderator & Official Cast Boolits Sketch Artist

    RP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nahunta NC
    Posts
    3,410
    I been searching the thread here for a answer and also goggled it, A self clean oven hits 900 plus degrees so annealing brass should not be a problem. I seen somewhere on the site guys doing just that my ? is how are they loading the brass on cooking sheets or stacked in a pail? Most self cleaning cycles are long like 4 hours which is over kill and will burn your elements out fast I would think. So the next ? is how long do you run the stove and with how much brass. I have a full size oven I use for PC bullets in no installed in my casting area I like to use to anneal 22 rimfire and 40 brass for swagging.
    So anybody using this method shine some light on what is needed or how they are doing it with a reg oven.
    Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon

  16. #176
    Vendor Sponsor


    BT Sniper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Oregon next to the river
    Posts
    5,650
    I use the self cleaning oven for annealing 22lr jackets and it works perfect. My oven is gas operated. I make sure and do it on a windy day when no one is home (what the wife doesn't know ) with all the windows open. Out of 4 attempts I have set of the smoke detectors 3 times Clean brass is key to not making a lot of smoke.

    I use a large pizza cooking sheet with holes all over the bottom purchased from walmart.

    The top of the oven gets the hottest. This is where I like to have the brass.

    I only fill the sheet so it is about one full layer, maybe two at the most, thick with 22lr brass. I don't know exact count but maybe 1K worth on each sheet. These are probably 20" in diameter pizza sheets??? I'll have to check.

    I fill the top two shelves both with one pizza sheet full of brass. Turn on the self clean cycle, let it run for 30 minutes to one hour and then turn it off. As soon as the door unlocks I take the hot brass and put them directly into a bucket of hot water with a bit of lemi shine to start the process of cleaning off the scale. Then it goes into the tumbler with stainless steel media, or can go to tumbler skipping the hot soak, either way it needs to be clean of all scale when it comes out of the tumbler.

    The brass will come out of the oven with a silver color when annealed enough. You will be able to tell if it is annealed enough when you can squish the mouth of the case between your two fingers.

    Here is a pic of a large zip lock bag full of brass. Don't recall how big it was, more then a gallon size but it was what I did on two pizza sheets worth ( might have actually been 4 sheets worth) and this is how clean it gets after the wet stainless steel tumble followed by a quick dry in corn cob media. That is a 2 liter soda bottle pictured with it full of brass that hadn't been cleaned yet. I think a 2 liter bottle will hold about 3K pieces of 22lr brass.



    I tried to anneal pistol brass in the oven but it didn't work as well, might have needed to "soak" longer since it is thicker brass. For pistol brass I use an actual elc. kiln but for 22lr jacket using a self cleaning oven is my preferred method for annealing the thin brass jackets.

    BT
    Last edited by BT Sniper; 01-03-2018 at 09:13 PM.
    BTX Star Crimp Die
    Back in stock with new low price!
    Click link below!
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Star-Crimp-Die


    also check in and say hello on my new face book page!
    https://www.facebook.com/BTSniper-153949954674572/

  17. #177
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Reloading Bench
    Posts
    352
    Just picked up a Lyman 20 lb pot, the kind for use with a ladle. On sale for 35 on Amazon. Simple, cheap, and effective.

  18. #178
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    80
    I have a Vulcan Multi-Stage 3-1750 programmable oven use for heat treating parts as needed in my machine shop and other chores. Has a maximum temperature of over 2,000° F and can be set to bring items up and down to different temperatures and hold them user defined times at each temperature. Can get over 1,000 cases in it at a time for annealing and anyone in the Lake Lanier area of Northeast Georgia is welcome to use it days I am in the shop. Will know for sure what temperature and time your items stay at it without any guesswork. Just drop me a PM if want to use and will work something out.
    For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. 2 Timothy 4:3

  19. #179
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    15
    I figured I'd add a bit to this thread. I have a hardness tester and decided to test a before and after .45 acp case. I tested it as fired (not sure if it was a reload or not, I'll try another that I can confirm is once fired) and then I tested it after I heated it to dull red and quenched in water. I tried to test on the edge of the webbing each time as close as possible. I will also test sometime soon, whether or not quenching makes a difference as there seems to be some discrepancy with this topic. I was using the "B" scale.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rockwell1.JPG   Rockwell2.JPG  
    Last edited by muleskinner222; 11-30-2018 at 02:49 PM.

  20. #180
    Vendor Sponsor


    BT Sniper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Oregon next to the river
    Posts
    5,650
    Muleskinner,

    Helps us to interpret the readings on your gauge.

    and just for curious sake maybe one additional sample.... like a piece of pure lead???? So we can compare.

    Thanks

    BT
    BTX Star Crimp Die
    Back in stock with new low price!
    Click link below!
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Star-Crimp-Die


    also check in and say hello on my new face book page!
    https://www.facebook.com/BTSniper-153949954674572/

Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check