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Thread: Annealing Jackets

  1. #161
    Frosted Boolits

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    Generally, no. I tried to do the same with 45 cases after being annealed. They don't crush...easily. They swage fine though. You are good to go. Swage on!!

    Side note:

    I assume the temp got higher than 650. Any idea whaqt the temp was after the hour?
    Last edited by IllinoisCoyoteHunter; 02-04-2015 at 09:32 PM.
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  2. #162
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    Gentlemen,
    I have read on here about annealing prior to swaging. I have seen alot of very creative ways to do so. I too came up with a way that is very efficient. I use my hot plate. I load it up with .40 cases, usually about 100 or so then I put the cores in. We all know that lead melts at 621 degrees so I know I am getting them at least that hot. Maybe hotter.
    My question is 2 fold. 1] Is that hot enough to anneal and 2] how long do I need to let them sit at that temp before annealing is complete?
    As usual thanks in advance for your help.

    Russ

  3. #163
    Boolit Buddy
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    General rule of thumb to anneal brass is...red hot.
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  4. #164
    Boolit Man
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    citric acid

    Quote Originally Posted by BT Sniper View Post
    Source for those looking for bulk citric acid

    http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=citric

    Lemi shine also works well.

    Thought I would post it here so I can find it again too

    GOod shooting

    BT
    I know this is a good bit late, but I just found this on Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D50XHPC?psc=1

    2 lbs for $10.99 and free shipping if you have Amazon Prime.

  5. #165
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukeInFlorida View Post
    $400??? Are you nuts????

    Get a BRAND new Lee 20 pound dipper pot for UNDER $100, and do even more, per batch, than you'd ever do with the used knife blade annealer.
    The Lee pot version is even designed for the exact perfect temperature range!!!!

    What do you think of using the Lyman dipper? I think it might be 10lb, but it should go to the same temp. Comments?

    By the way, I'm waiting for my Richard Corbin swagging set up as I type this. Getting the Sea Girt press, .223 3 die set and the 22lr case de-rimmer.

  6. #166
    Boolit Mold
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    Interesting and learned something new. Thanks

  7. #167
    Boolit Man
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    Just to add a little to this thread. I bit the bullet (so to speak) and purchased a "RapidFire Pro-L" kiln for right at $400. It will take the temp up to 2200F if you want it to. And it will reach that temp in about 3-4 minutes. It has a programmable controller and a thermocouple to read the internal heat. It only takes 1500 watts to run it, and is small enough to carry around. That said, it IS small, and will not take a large load of brass (the internal size is 6x5.5x6 inches). I use a large can to hold my brass in it fits inside easily. Now, I have used it a couple of times and ran it up to 800F. Is that enough? Or is it too high or too low? I don't want to "cook" the brass, but I do want it fully annealed. Any suggestions are welcome. And thanks for the information I've already gleaned from this thread.

  8. #168
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    Duke in florida and I anneal in a lee 20lb dipper pot that he got, put in a couple of hand fulls. I made a cover for it out of thick piece of steel plate and cook for 15 min. and they glow red and are done.
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  9. #169
    I'm A Honcho!

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    UPDATE to this discussion..........

    Pee Wee, Eddie P, and I have recently purchased a Paragon Jewelry style kiln. It is an electric kiln, runs on simple 115 V, 15 amps, 600 watts, and has a full digital controller. It's capable of temperatures from room temp to 2,000 degrees F. The volume inside is sufficient for annealing much larger quantities of brass than the Lee 20 pound dipper pot was. And, since this kiln is capable of controlling a specific "soak" time (when the brass gets to the 800 degrees, we can have it stay at that temperature for any amount of time we want), we can get the brass as dead soft as possible.

    We'll be making a custom stainless steel mesh container for holding the brass, such that it will fit inside.

    It's also discussed in another thread:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...able-Top-Kilns

    Here's what we got, used, for under $500:
    http://www.bigceramicstore.com/parag...ries-kiln.html

    We got ours from eBay.


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  10. #170
    Boolit Buddy Faret's Avatar
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    At 800 degrees how long are you letting it soak?

  11. #171
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    It doesn't require a lot of soak. Five minutes maybe. However, this kiln is all new to me, and I'll be doing a larger batch in this than ever before. So, to make sure that the inner brass gets up to temp, we may allow a few minutes, check them, and then proceed from there. It's the inner brass (protected from heat by the outer brass) that we are concerned about.

    What's nice is that we can do all sorts of things with this kiln. Stress relieving, annealing, melting, etc.


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  12. #172
    Boolit Buddy


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    I've been taking my brass to 10000F for 10 minutes. Works for me.

    Bill
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  13. #173
    Boolit Buddy
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    Well I lucked up and found a small electric Paragon kiln on craigslist for a song!

    It uses "Cones"
    (http://www.clay-king.com/kiln_suppli...ric_cones.html it's the SRB Small Cones "Junior Cones" )
    to determine the working temp but I would like to get a thermometer or probe type Thermocouple ....
    does anyone have a suggestion and a link to good ones they have used?

    I have tried to read all the post on this thread for the answers but man that's loads of reading!

    My question is do you put the brass in the Kiln while it is warming up or after it gets to the desired temperature?

    Looks like 1000 F is the target temp for about 10 minutes, so do you leave the brass in the kiln while it cools down or take them out to air cool?
    It Is Intuitively Obvious To The Casual Observer With The Least Amount Of Experience

  14. #174
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    Try some of the ceramics forums for the answers about the temperature probe. My kiln was a ceramics kiln, and the previous owner updated it with a probe and controller that he got online somewhere.

    I allow the brass to come up to temperature with the kiln, since putting a pan of brass inside a 1,000 degree F kiln can get pretty tricky, and I put mine in with the cores in them so they'll bond. My brass jackets are all standing up with the cores inside, so I don't want to have to fiddle with them in those kinds of temperatures.

    I let the kiln cool overnight with the brass and cores inside. Even after setting for about 10 to 12 hours with no current applied and the lid closed, the interior is still over 250 degrees F, so use caution when removing what's inside. I used a handheld infrared temperature reader to find how hot they were the first time before I lifted my trays out, and I'm glad I did.

    Here's a picture of a tray after it's removed from the kiln:



    And here's a picture of the same tray prior to being loaded into the kiln and before the kiln was turned on:



    Here's a picture of the updated controller and temperature probe the previous owner used on my kiln:



    I use a temperature of 1,125 degrees F., since that's what Starline uses to anneal their brass between operations. I figured they'd been in the business a long time and had done all the research, so there's no sense in me doing my own. They know what they're doing, so I just borrowed their knowledge.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  15. #175
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks Fred for the information.

    It does make more sense to let the Kiln cool down and not having to mess with hot trays/bowls to get them out.

    I did go online to the company that sells parts and accessories for the Kiln I have and did find hand held temperature meters that come with probes that are not that bad of price!

    Thanks again for the help!
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  16. #176
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    I been searching the thread here for a answer and also goggled it, A self clean oven hits 900 plus degrees so annealing brass should not be a problem. I seen somewhere on the site guys doing just that my ? is how are they loading the brass on cooking sheets or stacked in a pail? Most self cleaning cycles are long like 4 hours which is over kill and will burn your elements out fast I would think. So the next ? is how long do you run the stove and with how much brass. I have a full size oven I use for PC bullets in no installed in my casting area I like to use to anneal 22 rimfire and 40 brass for swagging.
    So anybody using this method shine some light on what is needed or how they are doing it with a reg oven.
    Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon

  17. #177
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    I use the self cleaning oven for annealing 22lr jackets and it works perfect. My oven is gas operated. I make sure and do it on a windy day when no one is home (what the wife doesn't know ) with all the windows open. Out of 4 attempts I have set of the smoke detectors 3 times Clean brass is key to not making a lot of smoke.

    I use a large pizza cooking sheet with holes all over the bottom purchased from walmart.

    The top of the oven gets the hottest. This is where I like to have the brass.

    I only fill the sheet so it is about one full layer, maybe two at the most, thick with 22lr brass. I don't know exact count but maybe 1K worth on each sheet. These are probably 20" in diameter pizza sheets??? I'll have to check.

    I fill the top two shelves both with one pizza sheet full of brass. Turn on the self clean cycle, let it run for 30 minutes to one hour and then turn it off. As soon as the door unlocks I take the hot brass and put them directly into a bucket of hot water with a bit of lemi shine to start the process of cleaning off the scale. Then it goes into the tumbler with stainless steel media, or can go to tumbler skipping the hot soak, either way it needs to be clean of all scale when it comes out of the tumbler.

    The brass will come out of the oven with a silver color when annealed enough. You will be able to tell if it is annealed enough when you can squish the mouth of the case between your two fingers.

    Here is a pic of a large zip lock bag full of brass. Don't recall how big it was, more then a gallon size but it was what I did on two pizza sheets worth ( might have actually been 4 sheets worth) and this is how clean it gets after the wet stainless steel tumble followed by a quick dry in corn cob media. That is a 2 liter soda bottle pictured with it full of brass that hadn't been cleaned yet. I think a 2 liter bottle will hold about 3K pieces of 22lr brass.



    I tried to anneal pistol brass in the oven but it didn't work as well, might have needed to "soak" longer since it is thicker brass. For pistol brass I use an actual elc. kiln but for 22lr jacket using a self cleaning oven is my preferred method for annealing the thin brass jackets.

    BT
    Last edited by BT Sniper; 01-03-2018 at 09:13 PM.
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  18. #178
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    Just picked up a Lyman 20 lb pot, the kind for use with a ladle. On sale for 35 on Amazon. Simple, cheap, and effective.

  19. #179
    I have a Vulcan Multi-Stage 3-1750 programmable oven use for heat treating parts as needed in my machine shop and other chores. Has a maximum temperature of over 2,000 F and can be set to bring items up and down to different temperatures and hold them user defined times at each temperature. Can get over 1,000 cases in it at a time for annealing and anyone in the Lake Lanier area of Northeast Georgia is welcome to use it days I am in the shop. Will know for sure what temperature and time your items stay at it without any guesswork. Just drop me a PM if want to use and will work something out.
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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check