True Grit - 1874 Sharps, 1894 rifle & Colt Dragoon

[Char-Gar]

The State of Texas issued Sharps carbines in 50-70 to the Rangers. They were conversions from the linen cartridge. When the Winchester 73 came out, The Rangers ditched the Sharps in favor of the Winchester and had to buy them out of their own pocket. Some Rangers continued to use the state issued rifle for some years later. Most did not.

So, a 50-70 Sharps carbine was correct for the movie.

[excess650]

[QUOTE=Geraldo;1123945]The book begins in 1928, when Mattie is old and recalls the story. I don't think there is a timeline given other than that the story occurred when she was 14. I'd guess circa 1880."

If the book begins in 1928 when Mattie is 40( according to the end of the new movie), then the movie is set 25-26 years earlier when she is 14, so 1902-1903.

Jim and Dean, I'm sorry if this offends you, but John Wayne was just another actor. I hold him in no higher esteem than anyone else, and I'm certainly not in awe. Pursuing autographs never interested me, and I wouldn't walk across the street to meet one of these people. I've seen a lot of JW movies, and while they're generally great movies for the time they were scripted, directed, and filmed, they aren't necessarily better than movies that have been produced since then.

This scenario reminds me of the Harrisburg Pa's review of the movie "Tombstone". The critic was in such awe of Kevin Costner, that he/she thought "Wyatt Earp" would be much better, though it wasn't even finished filming. Preconceived notions are often erroneous.

[Charley]

Movie has Mattie looking up Cogburn with Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show in 1903, saying it had been 25 years since she had seen him last...1903 - 25 is1878, just about right for all the firearms mentioned.
Never got a good look at the Navies on the saddle, might have been cartridge conversions. It wasn't all THAT unusual for smaller holster pistols to be carried on the pommel, not just "horse pistols". Awfully new looking Dragoon to have been carried at Chickamauga and seen everyday use before and after that.
Morrison was a decent actor, but most of his movies were historical abortions.

[excess650]

Charley,
You're right! I forgot that at the END of the new version she was looking for Cogburn who had just recently deceased. 1878 WOULD be a better fit for the firearms used than would be 1903.

I didn't read the book.

[10 ga]

Charley has it pretty much right except that the banner ay the show camp gives another name for the wild west show and not "Buffalo Bill". 10

[Beerd]

I know that there is no accounting for taste, but I liked the new "True Grit".

DeanW,
I do not remember hearing an excessive amount of blue language, nor do I recall seeing
much exposed flesh. Perhaps I slept thruogh those parts.
..

[Jim]

Anybody can do a better job than Glen Campbell. but to say Bridges did a better job than the Duke.........................................
THAT'S HERESY!

I should have added the "Big grin" emoticon behind my post. I was just havin' a little fun. Now that I think about it, I see my mistake.
I apologize. I promise you, I meant no offense.

[excess650]

I should have added the "Big grin" emoticon behind my post. I was just havin' a little fun. Now that I think about it, I see my mistake.
I apologize. I promise you, I meant no offense.

You didn't offend me. Quite to the contrary, I thought that I might have offended you.

The new movie starts out differently and ends differently, but for the most part the remainder is very similar in story line and dialogue. Some of the script is word for word. I had my doubts about a "remake", but my wife and I decided to see it anyway. We were both surprised....go see it and keep an open mind.

[Char-Gar]

Wayne had a carefully crafted on screen personality that proved to be a major box office draw. He didn't vary much from that proven money maker. There was some doubt that he could.

If you think he was an actor, you should see that movie again where he played Genghis Khan.

I enjoy Wayne and watch his movies over and over again, but a skilled actor, he was not.

[coopieclan]

Wow that was an interesting topic.
Sorry if it is somewhat off subject for muzzle loading.

[izzyjoe]

well let face it guy's they have run out of movies to make, so now there gona to start remaking the one's that did good before , just to make a buck. i have not seen the new true grit, and probally won't until it comes on regular tv. but the best western to come along in years, is open range. and you can bet your boots that someday they'll remake it. uhg. and no john wayne was not a great actor, but you'd be had pressed to find someone to fill his shoe's, just look at his career. nobody has come close to him.

[Geraldo]

Wayne had a carefully crafted on screen personality that proved to be a major box office draw. He didn't vary much from that proven money maker. There was some doubt that he could.

If you think he was an actor, you should see that movie again where he played Genghis Khan.

I enjoy Wayne and watch his movies over and over again, but a skilled actor, he was not.

He wasn't the best, but he wasn't as bad as some critics made him out to be. I'd say he was willing to be type-cast because as you say, he was a serious draw at the box office.

My wife is not a western fan, but she said she would go see True Grit if I wanted. I offered a compromise: we could go to see it in the theatre or she can buy me the book now and the DVD as soon as it's out. She said fine, and went one better. The theatre movie poster is already up in my cleaned out and repainted shop.

[Geraldo]

For those who are interested, I've been reading the book, and even the JW version followed a lot of it verbatim.

Guns in the book: During the trial when Mattie first sees Cogburn, he testifies that he used a .44-40 Colt revolver. Mattie's father wore a "long dragoon pistol" in a holster, and she described it as being old fashioned. Cogburn used it to kill the rat in his quarters. Cogburn also offered to swap her a pepperbox pistol for the Dragoon. Chaney has a Henry.

[bootsnthejeep]

There are a lot of people calling the new "True Grit" a remake of the JW picture, just because they are so close. But it shows how much both screenplays drew from the original text.

I went to see it in the theater, very excited and with high expectations. They weren't met, but that was NOT the movie's fault.

I, like a lot of you, am a HUGE JW fan, and True Grit is one of my favorite movies of his. So I've seen it a million times. So, much as I tried, I couldn't watch the NEW movie without constantly comparing it to the OLD movie. And it didn't make for enjoyable viewing.

I have to watch it again to give it a fair shake. I love Jeff Bridges. Hailee Steinfeld did an INCREDIBLE job in her roll, considering she is, in fact, 15 years old, and acting in the company of multiple academy award winners.

I'm arranging a viewing with some friends where we're going to watch the new on and then the old one back to back. I'm the only one in this group that has seen the JW version enough to remember it, if at all.

It is an excellent movie. I love the Coen brothers and their films, and this was no exception. But please don't decide to not give it a chance just because you like the original and feel it can't be done better. It may be a slow burn for you, but it is an excellent movie. Don't think of it as better or worse, rather two version of a very good book.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Well, I just have to put my two cents worth in. Like everyone else on this site I was born a gun nut. I began going to movies about 1940. My favorites were of course, the westerns. I was crushed when Buck Jones was killed in the Cocanut Grove night club fire in Boston. He could have easily saved himself but he kept going back in to rescue others. Durango kid was another favorite. In every film I saw I took notice of the guns. I dreamed of owing a Colt single action. I well remember the first one I held in my hand. It seemed so big. In all the movies I saw I never saw anyone use a '94 Winchester. All I were '92s. I didn't know it at the time but many of those guns were not Winchesters at but Spanish copies. When MGM studios auctioned off their prop deportment in the late 1960s,many of the guns were bought by Martin Redding who had a gunshop down the street in Culver City. I saw a large rack of '92 copies priced at 49 dollars each. Spain exported thousands of those guns to South America. I am sire many are still in use tiday. In 1950 a movie came out named Winchester '73. Everyone was quick to look and see if their '73 was a 1 of 1000. I played with one as a child. I remember it was a carbine and it had 38cal on the brass cartridge lifter. My father brought home some loose cartridges in a cigar box he had picked up in the shipyard were he worked during the war. I put one of them in the chamber of the ''73 and closed the lever. Lucky for me it didn't fire. Maby the round was a dud or the rifle had a broken firing pin. I could never get the cartridge out of the gun and I traded it away still loaded. I never saw or heard of the rifle after that. In the 1950s movies began to feature more appropriate weaponry. I have not seen the remake of True Grit nor do I plan to. I haven't been inside a movie theatre since 1973. The last one I saw was The Wind And The lion. Still a good flick. In the final scene of the orignal movie True Grit, Mattie Ross is laying flowers on her fathers grave. I am not sure but you may be able to see a date on the headstone. I just noticed , I have put in way more than two cents worth. As Maxwell Smart would say"sorry bout that"

[ironhead7544]

The new one is worth seeing. I was surprised at how close they were. The first one had Mattie with a Walker and the second is a transition model Dragoon, I think as I didnt get a good look at it. Looked like the Walker grip.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I just found a few more cents to through in. I read the book True Grit before I saw the movie and while I enjoyed the film and thought they followed the book closely enough, the Texas Ranger did not die in the book.I didn't think they said the lines exactly the way the people of Arkansas would say them. My Mother was born there in 1894 and she spoke much like the language of the book. I must say I never get tired of seeing the movie however. Several years ago they were showing some very old reruns of Charles Kuralt's tv show On The Road. He was in Arkansas and people were telling him that he just had to visit this charactor that lived down by the river. While he was talking to the man who wore bib overalls I noticed a board over the door of his shack. On it was painted the name , Rooster Cogburn. So we know where Charles Portis got the name. Portis wrote another book titled Norwood which was very funny and it was also made into a movie Staring Glen Cambel but the movie bombed. Funny books rarely work on film. I think much is best left to the imagination. Max Schulman wrote hillarious books but they didn't seem all that funny on film. The tv show Dobie Gillas was moderately successful. By the way. The Russians thought Charles Portis was America's best author since Mark Twain. My wife and went to Hollywood soon after the movie Tru Grit came out . We saw it at Grahman's Chinese Theatre and while we were standing in line the first showing let out. The man who played Mattie Ross's father came out and no one noticed him. I recognized him from all the westerns I had seen. I pointed him out to my friend and he asked, do you think our two wives would recognize a movie star if he came by, at that moment Jack Lalane walked between my wife and I and she didn't notice. At the time she followed his exercise show on tv everyday. I told him,I guess not. Jack died this week at the age of 96 ,so I guess all that exercise helped. I promise this is my last word on the subject.

[macguru]

That Sharps carbine was a black power cartridge weapon, most likely a 50-70 BUT

1. The cartridges on Matt Damon's belt look like 50-90s (Big Fifties). I guess these looked more impressive for the movie. I dont think they are 45-70s, they look too big.
2. As far as i know the carbine was not made in 50-90 ?
3. A 50-70 probably (?) could not shoot 400 yards, but a 50-90 could, so could a 45-70, and all were available in 1878 when the story was set.

[35remington]

Nobody will replace John Wayne.

As for the remake of True Grit, nobody has to. The Cohen brothers put their own stamp on the movie, and it is more coldly realistic than the original.

In many of the 60's westerns, including the ones John Wayne was in, most of the characters looked as if they bathed twice a day and collected their clothing every morning from the dry cleaners.

Not exactly "period representation."

Those that claim they will "sit out" the movie because it is somehow dumping cold water on the original are completely missing the point. The movies cannot be compared as the directing style and actors present are completely different.

This movie will stand on its own, and as the western "style" has changed, in many respects it's superior to the original. Including the acting and directing.

Just the way it is.