I did have "eyes on" with this rifle at the SHOT Show, and I think it's a cool concept. A 5 round detachable mag would be a nice amendment, too. The 10-round mags on the Lee-Enfields didn't hurt their popularity a bit, though.
Putting these up in an array of good field calibers would be a fine idea--243, 260 Rem, 7-08, 338 Federal, 358 Winchester. 308 was a fine first choice, all the same. Heck of a truck rifle, for sure.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
This gun was designed specifically with the Practical, and Tactical rifle courses at Gunsite and Frontsight in mind. I would use mine there more than anywhere else.
I'm not a big fan of the Scout Scope mounting system in general but luckily that will come right off with a couple of screws. Just my .02 on that.
The fact that you can mount a scope in the normal position with Ruger mounts and still have the receiver sight in reserve that should repeat when reinstalled is a big plus.
If these guns were used as hunting rifles they would be well adapted to going into rough places where the scope would be most likely to get knocked about. Having the receiver sight as a back up is a good thing to fall back on during your $20,000 hunt of a lifetime.
The only thing I'd like to see changed is the sling mounted on the left side, like the M94Swede Carbines I mentioned above. Not having even the 5rnd mag gouging your back for days on end would be good thing. I would definately modify mine to do this along with a 1.5" heavy nylon sling to spread the weight out. I can make 1.5 QD sling swivels when I need them.
I think they hit a home run with this one, and I can't wait til some more become available.
Randy
Good points.
The issue of the rifle's weight distribution comes to mind. Looking at the photos of the rifle, it would seem that it NEEDS the forward-mounted ("IER") scope sight to give a point-of-balance ahead of the magazine. I suspect that a five-round mag would allow carry with one's hand wrapped around the magazine with a conventionally-mounted scope, and the ten-round mag would be kept in reserve for "shooting time" as opposed to "carrying time".
This can be very important for long periods of carrying. The #4 Enfield, for example, IN ISSUE TRIM, balances just ahead of the magazine and carries easily in one hand....I've done it for many miles. Many sporterized #4s are clunky and poorly-balanced for this reason....no compensation was made for the missing weight of the removed parts.
I like the concept of the side-mounted swivels, too...this would ease the carrying with a ten-round magazine installed.
So, the rear sight removes easily? I wonder where it could be carried to keep it accessible for use when needed (poor weather, scope damage, etc.). Butt-trap? Pistol-grip cap? Modern glass sights are very reliable, to be sure, but IRON wins in the durability race.
I don't see me carrying anything for long distances any more, but it doesn't mean I can't have nice, portable rifles, does it? Walter Mitty still lives....
Regards from BruceB in Nevada
"The .30'06 is never a mistake." - Colonel Townsend Whelen
You know. I'd prefer the #5 Enfield....but if I desired a scope the Ruger would be better. I don't need no stinkin' scope if I have peep sights. And really the #5 would be faster on reloads with the stripper clips.
But I do like this Ruger rifle, good, very good thinking on their part.
Ruger has come a long way, they are really stepping up to the plate. Kudos on their upgrades to the Mini-14 and the New Vaquero, magazine and parts availability. You can now order from Ruger many parts for their firearms, extractors and such like.
I handled one of these today, and liked it, but it hasn't come home with me yet. The magazine wasn't in it so I'm not sure how that changes things, but some for sure. Looks like you need an allen wrench to remove the receiver sight, but it is a rugged, and useful sight all the same. I'm not sure about a barrel that short either, but that shouldn't make much difference with cast boolits. I noticed that the picatinney (sp) rail is just held on with screws, and no dowels for recoil shoulders, and it woldn't be a good idea to use the receiver for one either from an accuracy standpoint. Makes me wonder if a No.1 could get along without those dowels that often put strain on the barrel. Anyway, it was interesting, and as others have mentioned it would make one heck of a nice truck gun. The bolt on this one was pretty stiff to open, and that took a bit away from the "slick" factor.
Believe the current issue of Shotgun News does a comparison between 3 Extended Eye Relief Scopes (Bushnell, Leupold and a chinesse produced model) The author was Dave Fotiler. There was a side article on the German k98 mit Zf41 scope from WWII.
CD
De Oppresso Liber
Irag: 91,03,04,05,06,08,09',15', 16',22-23'
Afghanistan: 09,10,11',14',17'-21'
OK, the other video had some of the fwd mounted scopes. Pretty lame bolt manipulation
in several of the videos, though.
Interesting concept, price point is pretty high, will keep listening to what folks say about
it. What about the Frontier model M77 with the fwd mounted scope? Is it still cataloged?
I didn't see it on the web site.
Bill
If it was easy, anybody could do it.
That is some nice looking rifles there! It makes me miss my L42A that I used to have.Originally Posted by bowfin
Actually, Australia has had something like this for several years:
http://www.australianinternationalar...au/product.htm
We just can't seem to get them imported here. Last I heard, it had to do with parts being made in countries that aren't allowed to import, such as Vietnam and or Cambodia.
Thanks for sharing that...although I wonder how they in fact knew the cutoff was the contibuting factor. Probably the officers/sgts had to continually remind the troops to disengage the cutoff. A neat range idea but not suited to the stress of actual combat.
There is an old saying about wwI bolties: The americans had the best target rifle, the germans the best hunting rifle and the british the best combat rifle. Not sure about the french and italians.
I think Ruger has discontinued the "Frontier" model with the rib for a forward mounted scope. I think they were a bit heavy for such a small gun, and I don't think the forward mounted scope is all that popular yet. The length of pull on those guns as well as the Compacts turns a lot of tall guys like me off too. The new Gunsite gun has things folks wanted on the Frontier like iron sights, and adjustable length of pull. It will be interesting to see how this new gun is accepted by the shooting public. The one I saw was priced at something over $700, and I expect that is where the "street" price will hover. The flash hider helps people forget just how short the barrel is, and that may help sales too. I've been following the new Mini-14 Tactical carbines too. One was sold at the local guns shop in 7.62 X 39 a short while ago, and was back in the used gun rack within three weeks............. Hmm.
a Spanish FR8. Looks like Ruger did his usual copy and did poorly.
The two FR8s I have had shot like target guns and I wouldn't hold my breath expecting a Ruger to do as well.
Life is good
Hopefully, the reports that come in from folks actually using this gun will be better. I kind of hope it turns out to be a good product. Bill Ruger Sr. died some years ago, so products from that company are being designed by other folks now. The FR8 that I owned shot well, but didn't feed from the converted magazine well at all. I liked the concept, but didn't keep the gun too long. It didn't shoot any better than my nice 94 Winchester 30-30, and wasn't as handy.
Last edited by NHlever; 03-31-2011 at 09:21 AM.
"So, the rear sight removes easily? I wonder where it could be carried to keep it accessible for use when needed (poor weather, scope damage, etc.). Butt-trap? Pistol-grip cap? Modern glass sights are very reliable, to be sure, but IRON wins in the durability race."
Bruce, it looks to me like the receiver sight can be left installed, and sighted in on this gun with a scope mounted either in the forward mounting position, or conventionally like the Mini-14 set up. It also looks like it can be removed with an allen wrench, but I don't know if it would repeat when reinstalled.
I hear the Gunsite Scout has a plastic trigger guard. I'm sorry but this just screams cheap to me. It my be the best designed rifle in the world...but plastic just turns me off. Kind of like the intergral locks on the S&Ws.
Correct on the forward scout type set-up. The rear peep mounts on the rear ring base so that a reciever mounted scope wouldn't allow the peep attached. Warne quick detach rings and the
Burris 2 to 7 power Ballistiplex handgun scope make a very nice setup good to 500 yards or so.
The peep sights are excellent on this rifle.
I have been shooting the Ruger GSR for over a month now (over two hundred rounds so far) and have fallen in love with the concept. To start with, accuracy WILL NOT be minute of angle, at least not with my skills, but three rounds under two inches at 100 yards is easily achieved. This was using several factory factory loads, my jacket bullet handloads, and happily, it shoots cast boolit loads quite well. On a side note, I have used the Remington 150 grain Core lokt in .308 to take quite a few deer over the years and have always been pleased at its accuracy and ability to drop deer. Disappointingly, my GSR does not like the round and will barely group under three inches. Strangely, my rifle loves WW whitebox FMJ 147 grain ammo. The closest I have been to minute of angle was with this load.
I managed to acquire a 5 round mag from Brownell's (the price is a little steep but the mag is well made) and truly believe Ruger should send the rifle with the five rounder instead of the ten round magazine. The higher capacity is fine if you have a zombie infestation but is not optimum for hunting and may even be illegal in some areas. It also seems ungainly to me for woods carry. Having said that, I will use the ten round mag in a tactical rifle match soon, but the smaller mag will live in the gun. The flash hider is a little strange if not a little sexy lookin’, but there are other options to replace it with available from several sources. I preferred the Burris Scout scope over the Leupold and have come to appreciate how quick it is to come on target and the speed for a followup shot with this system. If the scout concept is not a choice you can always use the perfectly useable peep sights supplied with the rifle or the rings to mount a scope in the “normal” manner. The length of pull is also easily adjustable by removing the spacers and I did make the length the shortest possible but am still experimenting with this option. The recoil pad also works quite well and while a complaint with some, I find the stickiness of the pad a bonus while shooting. Handy, powerful, accurate enough, and somewhat customizable to your needs from the factory, I would call this one a win for Ruger.
It is time for the taxpayers in this country to impose term limits at the ballot box. Vote all encumbents out every election, no matter which party. It is time they remember who they work for and who pays the bills.
Well I did manage to get one! paid $750 and haven't received it yet. Should be here this week and I can go thru the CA BS and wait another 10 days to pick it up.
I did get to handle one today at a local shop. He wanted $999 and wouldn't even budge for a friend. It had a very dark stock, and I doubt mine will look that bad. The metal work looked very generic. It operated smoothly but could definately use some TLC. This is definately a Utility Gun.
The Trigger guard appeared to be made out of some kind of high tec plastic, but very strong and well thought out.(turns out to be Glass filled nylon) The magazine is similar to a M14 mag except it doesn't pivot into the mag well, it goes strait in and locks in easily. Also unlike the Mini 14 mags which are tempermental to engage unless you are well practiced. These are slick.
However you should all know, this thing handles like a dream.It points quick and the sights are very easy to pick up quickly. Mine will get either a 1-4X or 2-7X scope mounted on it in the normal position as I have never be able to swallow the look of the forward mounted scope. It will also get one of my Prototype "Tactical Slings" I'm working on. It will be a good "can gun" fosho! I can't wait to do a practical rifle class at Front Sight with it.
I agree with Curly James the 5 rnd mags are a must. I think with 2 of those you'd be better off than with one 10 rnder. 2 of each will certainly get you thru any concievable use of he gun. I also agree this will be a homerun for Ruger. I very seldom see a new gun that I like, I was sold on one of these in 15 seconds! That's the true test of a killer product, no salesman required.
I'm glad to hear it likes BOOLITS as that's what mine will see other than at Front Sight. Also I have a bunch of the pulled 147gr FMJ's which I also will be using for local stuff.
I can't wait for it to arrive.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Randy
Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 04-21-2011 at 10:16 PM.
There's a pretty good writeup on the Ruger GSR in AR this month. I don't know if it's just "puffery," but according to the article, they're flying off the shelves. The reviewer actually went to Gunsite and had the mentors there guide him through the evaluation. I don't think the early reviewers really got Cooper's concept back when the Steyr came out. They'd put it on a bench, gripe about the forward mounted scope, fire a selection of factory loads, gripe about getting no one-hole groups, suggest that the barrel should be heavier, or longer, or that the scope should be mounted in the usual position, or that it should be offered in .223, .264 or whatever the writer's favorite caliber was and that would be it; damned with faint praise or dismissed as mediocre.
The concept was a premier general purpose rifle: one that was a better hunting/battle rifle than the 03 Springfield, a better target/battle rifle than the Mauser and a better hunting/target rifle than the Enfield while giving away the minimum number of points to those rifles in their own special niches. Prettiness was absolutely not an issue. It was supposed to be an ergonomic phenomenon; something that could be carried comfortably and conveniently all day and snapshot like a shotgun when needed, but would still be accurate enough and powerful enough from field positions to dispatch reasonable-size targets at any practical range.
Me, I like specialty "toys," but I could see having a Scout if it was my only rifle and I was using it for the primary purposes for which rifles are used.
If you're looking at scopes for these don't forget the Burris Scout scope. I had one on my Model 7 scout and liked it far more than mounting a pistol scope (which I did on my Savage). With the M7 I could hit 12" plates reliably at 200-300 yards but at any range longer than that it got ugly. I could have kept somebody's head down but that was about it.
As far as the Ruger goes I don't think anyone has ever incorporated all of Cooper's requirements into a scout, particularly the mag cutoff. I didn't see if the Ruger has three slings attachments, but if not that would bother me as I came to like the three point sling. Five round mags would be a must, and I could live without the flash hider. I think the street price is steep (but they all seem high to me these days), because when you get up around $1000 I start thinking of putting some extra into having a rifle worked on the way I want it.
Most people would sooner die than think, in fact, they do so. -B. Russell
I do like the scout concept but am not tied to the oal dimensions or the weight. Seems strange Ruger kept to the aol but fudged on the weight???? On the Ruger it is really too bad they didn't alter the bolt to true CRF and stick with the M14 mag. The push feed/CRF Ruger bolt face was not conducive to positive feed with the M14 Mag unfortuneately. Possible use of 20 round M14 mags would have been much better. With M14 mags of 5, 10 or 20 rounds the mag could also have been topped off with single rounds or with a 5 round stripper clip.
I also would have gone with a 20" barrel (18" absolute minimum) and the same flash suppressor. I would also have kept the .308Ws original 12" twist. When you start talking 400+ yard shots the shorter barrel is giving up a lot for a little "handiness".
The scout scope must be mounted low so "see through" mounts negate all the advantage of the forward mounted scope. So does to high a magnification. I've scout scopes of 1.5 - 3 power and find 3 power is just about max. I see leupold is making a 1.5x4 power. If it maintains the same eye relief that might be ok but simplicity is also a key feature of the scout. The more gadgetry the less effective it will be for it's purpose. Qiuck detachable mounts, even standard Weaver style, are easily removed if the scope goes TU and the back up iron are to be used. Just remember to keep the scope as low as possible with the occular lens not more than 1/8" clearance above the front reciever ring for best use.
In my personal opinion based on useage of scout rifles since the mid '80s the Ruger comes close but is just a 3rd commercial choice. Close but no cigar.
Larry Gibson
Last edited by Larry Gibson; 05-18-2011 at 10:29 AM.
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