AR-10 Cast!!!

[x101airborne]

OK, Instead of standing on someone elses shoulders, again, I have started load development for the AR-10 in 308 Win. I am using Federal match brass full length sized with a .309 sizing button meant for the 7.62x39. I am using Wincester large rifle primers and unique powder, just for a start point. My first load was 12 gr. Unique with a 2gr. dacron filler. Lyman 311466 160 gr. Seated at 2.575 inches. 5 shots at 30 yards went 1 1/2 inches. Loads would break the bolt over, but not cycle the action. Not really thinking Unique will serve my needs, I think H-4895 will be what I try next. It is a really stable powder that can be loaded fairly light (Hodgdon recommends H-4895 for the reduced jacketed loads).

Stay with me, as I try new things, I will update posts. If anyone has a suggestion, please comment. When I get a BINGO, yall will be the second to know

[Moonie]

I'm pretty sure you will hit max pressure before you will be able to cycle the action. It is a gas volume issue. You must use a slower powder to create the gas volume at the proper pressure at the port. Unique will peak way too soon, before the port. By the time the boolit passes the port the pressure will have dropped and the volume will be on its way down.

As I mentioned before, H4895 is a great powder to start with because you can reduce it by 60% safely.

[x101airborne]

Well, tried same everything but switched to H-4895 powder. First load was 25.0 gr wich would cycle one out of 3 shots. It also gave a nice little 3/4 inch 5 shot group with no leading. Next load was 30.0 gr of H4895. Looked like i hit that target with 000 buck. No semblance of a group. Barrel is now smooth with lead. It may be till tomorrow when I get that barrel cleaned and back to shooting.

[x101airborne]

Wish I had some H-380 to try.

[prs]

Well, tried same everything but switched to H-4895 powder. First load was 25.0 gr wich would cycle one out of 3 shots. It also gave a nice little 3/4 inch 5 shot group with no leading. Next load was 30.0 gr of H4895. Looked like i hit that target with 000 buck. No semblance of a group. Barrel is now smooth with lead. It may be till tomorrow when I get that barrel cleaned and back to shooting.

Now I have never done such a thing, so I am a totally ignorant commenter , but why did you up the charge so much when 2 out of 3 cycled and group was only 3/4" with 5 shots (I suppose distance was still short). Why not up the charge 1gr at a time and then tweek in fractions of gr. In case I ever do get such an experimenting bug.

prs

[x101airborne]

Dont feel bad, im a totally ignorant expiramenter. That load would only cycle ONE out of three times. I really think that the one was more of an accident than anything. I suppose it was hasty to up it 5 grains at a time, but I was looking to see if accuracy would fall off first or if leading would occur. I guess both. Lyman listed IIRC 40 or 44 grains as max, so I thought I was good to go at 30.

[NSP64]

Your only as good as your lube and alloy

[mpmarty]

My 7.62X51 Saiga AK does just fine with a 170gr LEE boolit over 25gr of 2400 and a LR primer. Functions reliably and shoots into 3" at a hundred yards strings the shots vertically.

[x101airborne]

Funny you should mention that.... I was just looking through some recipies for a harder but malleable alloy. I would like to use this rifle for some limited hunting. Hogs, coyotes, etc. Not that I dont have other weapons that would work just as well. My current alloy is similar to lyman #2 air cooled. My lube is rooster jacket. Boolits are sized to .310.

[x101airborne]

If your 7.72x51 strings vertically, try adding some dacron on top of your powder. I have heard this controls stringing with cast loads.

[rockrat]

I don't think Rooster Jacket is for the kind of velocities you are looking for. I would use thinned LLA first, before you give up. I shoot 30gr of surplus 4895 in my Garand with no lead at all, but I use LBT soft blue lube too.
Try the LLA first.

Keep us informed, as I have an AR10 that I also want to use with cast.

[x101airborne]

raockrat..... i am far from giving up, i just have to do some serious cleaning

What type of alloy are you using in your garand? I dont think this is any different than loading for the m1 Garand, M1A, FN-FAL, etc.... I think I am coming to a point that the easy rifles are loaded for, and to achieve what i want to achieve is going to take some different disciplines than what im used to. But... I no skered. I just need to do some basic one variable at a time testing. My alloy currently is soft. Gives great performance in bolt guns. This is not a bolt gun . So, with a little tayloring of load, alloy and lube (possibly a different boolit, maybe a 170 gr.) I think i can getter done.

[NHlever]

raockrat..... i am far from giving up, i just have to do some serious cleaning

What type of alloy are you using in your garand? I dont think this is any different than loading for the m1 Garand, M1A, FN-FAL, etc.... I think I am coming to a point that the easy rifles are loaded for, and to achieve what i want to achieve is going to take some different disciplines than what im used to. But... I no skered. I just need to do some basic one variable at a time testing. My alloy currently is soft. Gives great performance in bolt guns. This is not a bolt gun . So, with a little tayloring of load, alloy and lube (possibly a different boolit, maybe a 170 gr.) I think i can getter done.

I'm assuming that the Garrand is a 30-06, and there is a lot of difference between 30 grains of 4895 in a .308 than 30 grains of 4895 in a 30-06.

[NSP64]

X101 is the leqd from the chamber to the muzzle. If it is it is an alloy failure. If it starts down the baarrel a ways , then its lube failure.

[rockrat]

Nope, Garand in 308. Even 28gr works well, but accuracy was a bit better with the 30gr load (165 RCBS sil boolit). I was using water quenched , ww/lino in a 4/1 ratio. Sized .311"

Working with a Handi Rifle now and a Rem 700, but AR10 is next

[x101airborne]

Nope, Garand in 308. Even 28gr works well, but accuracy was a bit better with the 30gr load (165 RCBS sil boolit). I was using water quenched , ww/lino in a 4/1 ratio. Sized .311"

Working with a Handi Rifle now and a Rem 700, but AR10 is next

See.. I was thinking about taking 5 pounds of my #2 recipe and either water quenching (most probable) or adding 1 pound of lino to the mix and re-casting.

Just for clarification, the lead is ALL the way down the barrel. ALL, the way. I took it to mean an alloy failure. ALL the way down. The whole thing. Stem to stern. Breach to crown. End to end. The whole enchilada. you get the idea.

[Dutch4122]

The alloy that you are looking for is 50% Wheelweights and 50% pure lead, water dropped from the mold. Size, lube, and gas check them within 24 hours of casting. Let them age for 2 weeks and they will come out to a BHN of approximately 22. This alloy is hard, but malleable and works very well for high velocity with cast boolits.

Hope this helps,

[x101airborne]

Dutch, that is just what I was looking for!!! Excellent help. Thanks.

[Dutch4122]

One other thing, a good lube is mandatory when you are trying to go fast. I recommend either Carnuba Red or BAC. Both of these lubes are made and sold by a member here that goes by the handle of "Lar45." You can look him up on the members list above. Check out his website and decide for yourself which of those two lubes will serve your needs best. Also, Glenn's prices can't be beat, as his lubes are less expensive than RCBS or Lyman lubes. With both of them you will need a heater on your lube sizer.

As for powder selection. If you were shooting a bolt gun I'd be telling you to pick a slower burning powder. Possibly even slower than 4895. I have had good results with IMR4007SSC and a 210 grn slug in a 16.5" barreled 7,62x51 Milsurp bolt action. The reason for this is to not overstress the alloy before the boolit leaves the barrel. The problem you have, and one I have no experience with, is that you have to match your gas volume pressure at the port like "Moonie" mentioned. Which slower powder will do that and still give the velocity you want while cycling the action is something you'll have to experiment with and find out for yourself.

Edit: You might want to PM "357maximum" here on the board. He is shooting the BRP 30-180-SIL Modified out of a 20" barreled 7.62x51 Spanish Mauser at full jacketed velocities. I believe he is loading with powders in the 4064 burn range and it may in fact be Varget that he is using.

Ain't Cast Boolits fun?!

Hope this helps,

[gds]

I worked on a .308 load for my L1A1 based on Bruceb's thread, using reloader 7, because that is the powder I had on hand, and Lee C312-155-2R. Got to 29.5 grains and would function the L1a1 100% and no leading. Accuracy was good enough for plinking.