Show us your wildcats!

[Charlie Sometimes]

Ah, the trouble one will go to to find the perfect cartridge combination based on only the stuff we already have, and not what has already been done elsewhere in another time!

Scientific experimentation must be more about proving it to yourself, than about verifying someone elses work!
Ain't nuthin' like havin' it right there in your hand to see, feel, touch, and ponder upon, is there? But it is SO FUN!

[Dannix]

I've found it can be hard to get chamber and brass specs though, i.e. the info is too obscure or, for more recent developments, the designer is not willing to share it. Seems re-engineering or reverse-engineering a round is the only option sometimes.

Ah, the trouble one will go to to find the perfect cartridge combination based on only the stuff we already have, and not what has already been done elsewhere in another time!

[Euan]

here is a couple of wildcat rounds that i use a lot. Mainly for hunting with cast boolits.
1st one is my 9.5 X57 ackley which I use on a small ring 98 mauser. I used a 6mm ackley reamer then a Manson .375 neck & throater to do chamber. I get good positive headspace with the Ack version. It is an excellent hunting combination.
2nd is the 375/303 which I have used for nearly 30 years in various rifles. my 3 favourates are my win 85 hi wall, my 95 win, and a large martini.
Cheers Euan

[Charlie Sometimes]

You know, I've never had a martini. How do they taste?
Anything like a screwdriver?

How did you come up with dies for your 9.5 x 57 Ackley, same way?
You may be giving me ideas.

[redneckdan]

Here is my progress so far.




Need to do a final trim to length on the 2nd case from the right. I plan to test the round at reduced capacity in my contender before looking into a barrel for a bolt gun.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Okay, I give up. What are you making above?
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a previous post about these.
Looks like you are going from 30-06 to what?

[Mk42gunner]

Goodlooking case there Dan, it ought to have enough capacity to do whatever you desire with boolits. It also has more than enough shoulder to headspace on.

Robert

[heathydee]

On a slightly different note .
I am planning a scratch build 30 calibre pump action rifle with a box magazine . Rimless cases work better in a box magazine and I am looking to have a case capacity of 45 grains or so ; sufficient space to allow a slow burning powder - 4350 for instance - to get a 200 grainer to 2200 fps with low pressure . A 308 case almost fits the bill because of availability and cost but the neck is too short . A thought which occurred to me was to run a 308 case into a shortened full length resizing die to move the shoulder back about a quarter inch resulting in a nice , long , cast boolit friendly neck .
Has anyone heard of such a thing ?

[redneckdan]

Okay, I give up. What are you making above?
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a previous post about these.
Looks like you are going from 30-06 to what?

Cases from left to right:


30-06

30-06 sized in 375 JDJ die in order to properly head space for fire forming

30-06 fire formed in 375 JDJ contender with 5.0 gr of red dot and a case full of cream of wheat . Fire forming blows the .30-06 neck out to fit the 375 JDJ neck. Also rough trimming is done

375 JDJ-rimless Needs a final trim and load with a war shot in order to fully form the case.


My goal is 375 whelen performance using dies I already have. Also the shorter case will allow longer bullets to be seated out further and still fit in the magazine.

[Charlie Sometimes]

COOL! Now I am up to speed. Thanks.
That does turn out nice- I like.

[Dannix]

375 JDJ-rimless Needs a final trim and load with a war shot in order to fully form the case.

Could you elaborate on "war shot"? I'm unfamiliar with it, and I'm sure you can imagine the deluge of unrelated hits I got when I attempted to websearch for it.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I think he means a full power load- something you would go to war or hunt with, if necessary.
Not a common slang term- but I think I caught the jist of the intent.
Heck, I could be wrong.

[redneckdan]

Yup. He is right. Full power load to fully form the case to the chamber. Right now the shoulders have a larger radius than normal. The cream of wheat firing was mostly to blow the 30-06 neck out to fit the 375 neck. I had tried forming the neck up with a progression of sizing buttons but that did not work well. Blowing the case out worked best. Since the case being formed is tight fit on the shoulder there is no need to have the proper extractor in the contender. The shoulder holds the head space for firing and a little lift up with a blade screw drive extracts the fired case from the chamber.

[Dannix]

Yup. He is right. Full power load to fully form the case to the chamber.

war shot = full power. Gotcha.

Right now the shoulders have a larger radius than normal. The cream of wheat firing was mostly to blow the 30-06 neck out to fit the 375 neck. I had tried forming the neck up with a progression of sizing buttons but that did not work well. Blowing the case out worked best.

Do you consider your war loads as just a case prep step, or do you bother to actually shoot groups with them?

Since the case being formed is tight fit on the shoulder there is no need to have the proper extractor in the contender. The shoulder holds the head space for firing and a little lift up with a blade screw drive extracts the fired case from the chamber.

I'm afraid my knowledge of the contender is lacking. Are you noting this because a rimless would usually headspace on the extractor in a contender otherwise?

[redneckdan]

war shot = full power. Gotcha.


Do you consider your war loads as just a case prep step, or do you bother to actually shoot groups with them?


I'm afraid my knowledge of the contender is lacking. Are you noting this because a rimless would usually headspace on the extractor in a contender otherwise?

At this point I do not know if the forming loads would group decently or not. I mentioned the head space so that when some one else reads this thread they understand what I am doing before they post about 'hey you can't do that, the '06 doesn't fit the extractor...'

[rockrat]

Here is my version of the necked down 357max. Has a 30-30 length neck on it. Designed it for Coors, but ended up shooting it in IHMSA


Now if I can find my 44-284 ammo, I will post a pic of that. Built it for IHMSA, and also built a rifle with it and shot my first elk with it. In the rifle, it was a 265gr Hornady @2,550 fps

[357maximum]

On a slightly different note .
I am planning a scratch build 30 calibre pump action rifle with a box magazine . Rimless cases work better in a box magazine and I am looking to have a case capacity of 45 grains or so ; sufficient space to allow a slow burning powder - 4350 for instance - to get a 200 grainer to 2200 fps with low pressure . A 308 case almost fits the bill because of availability and cost but the neck is too short . A thought which occurred to me was to run a 308 case into a shortened full length resizing die to move the shoulder back about a quarter inch resulting in a nice , long , cast boolit friendly neck .
Has anyone heard of such a thing ?

How about a 308W case that has been ran into a .300 savage die ?????? I know it has been done somewhere.

[rockrat]

Now if you were building a bolt gun, you could set back the 308 bbl, cut off your dies and maybe run a 30-30 reamer in the chamber to lengthen the neck.

Hmmm, might have to try that one of these days. Have a spare 308 varmint barrel lying around, don't think I have a 30-30 reamer, but my 30/357max reamer might work just fine. Will have to check neck diameters.

Thats all I need, ANOTHER project

[NoZombies]

c'mon who doesn't need another project?

[heathydee]

How about a 308W case that has been ran into a .300 savage die ?????? I know it has been done somewhere.

I have had a look here at the 300 Savage and 308 Winchester drawings .http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm
Doing as you suggest would lengthen the neck a couple of millimetres but not as much as I want . A neck around a half inch long , still with the 20 degree shoulder would (in my mind at least) make a perfect thirty calibre cast boolit cartridge .
Long , cast boolit friendly neck .
Easily formed from readily available brass .
Around a 40 to 45 grain powder capacity so the slower powders for the cartridge could ease a heavy for calibre cast boolit up to the 2200 fps mark .
Rimless cartridge works better in a box magazine.
A Lee Collet die,bullet seating die and factory crimp die could be used unmodified . As could their case trimmer . Full length re-sizing would be the only problem .

This is a wildcat that has been in my mind lately and unless anyone can come up with a better (or previous) name I am going to call it the 30 Cast Boolit .