Show us your wildcats!

[Chev. William]

Added cartridge photo to post #320 on this thread. Chev. William

[Chev. William]

two reconstruction Wildcats:
.221 Askins
5,5mm Velo Dog

221 Askins V1 A NC Model (1).pdf
Case Drawing(s)
Overall loaded length; .221 Askins =.995" with 40 grain lead bullet
and 5,5 Velo Dog =1.35" with 45 grain Jacketed Bullet.

[bruce drake]

THere was a relatively recent post on this thread about a 35-223 Rem wildcat. The new 350 Legend from Winchester is a unique one off from the new 22 Nosler cartridge. it has a rebated rim to use an AR15 bolt carrier group but offers an increased case capacity cartridge short enough to use an AR15 receiver and meet those straight wall hunting guidelines.

If Winchester is going to start making brass runs or outsource production of either the 350 Legend or 22 Nosler brass than this new cartridge family may be worth expanding into.

[Moleman-]

The previous seasons post deer hunting project, .375-6.8 FUW 6.8spc case expanded up to take a 375 bullet. Similar in speed to 375 Win, but shorter to meet MI DNR regs and to feed out of a AR15 magazine.

[Whiterabbit]

Starline makes it. Its viable now. 35-223 is a dead wildcat for as long as starline keeps making 350 legend

[444ttd]

i have a 20 vartarg, 500 linebaugh and a 35/30 win(no picture, i have the target). i have a 98 mauser that will be a 400 whelen(mr petrov design).

[woodbutcher]

What a great thread.That .30 Badger interests me greatly.However,due to a shortage of the long green that is a far future project.Thanks to all who have posted.Old thread but a goody
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Outpost75]

The 10x25mm, a rimmed revolver wildcat, aka .40/.44 Special Short One Inch.

Attachment 248434

"Shortened .38-40" is versatile as BP cowboy plinker, powerful smokeless packing pistol or hard-hitting, subsonic, blooper rifle.


Our 10x25mm Revolver project was spawned during a chat over adult beverages between myself, Mike Hastings, and Sam Hotton... The initial concept was a handy "packing pistol" of caliber, “starting with a 4,” throwing “a half-ounce chunk of lead about 1000 fps,” which could be loaded down for small game using either light smokeless loads or black powder to approximate .41 Long Colt ballistics. It would make a dandy subsonic blooper rifle for dispatching garden varmints without disturbing the neighbors or "scaring the natives."

The agreed design objective was a strong, modern, RIMMED .40 cal. cartridge, which could exploit .40 S&W or 10mm jacketed or .38-40 cast bullets. In the medium game “packing pistol” role, it would approximate .38-40 black powder rifle ballistics using smokeless, firing from a sturdy Ruger revolver, doing so with a compact, sturdy case, formed from common brass, thus avoiding the excess free airspace, and fragile nature of .38-40 brass.

Powder capacity would approximate the 10mm Auto (actually it's about 8% greater). Indeed, five grains of Bullseye with a 180-220-grain cast bullet approximates .40 S&W or .45 ACP energy. A case full (21 grs. poured, 24 grains with compression die) of 3Fg Goex black powder, (4.5 grains) of Trail Boss or a "starting" load (3.5 grains) of Bullseye gives about 700-750 fps for Cowboy Action, plinking, or small game. The .44 Russian case has exactly the right case capacity, when necked down to .40 having a poured capacity of 21 grains of 3Fg, or 4.5 grains of Trail Boss.

Mike Hastings and I were the initial project guinea pigs, having .357/9mm Ruger convertible Blackhawks that weren’t being used much. Dave Manson made the reamer, he identified as “.40/.44 Special Short 1-Inch.” Our gunsmith, John Taylor, preferred a simple metric designator, so “among us kids” we began to refer to it as “the 10x25mm Revolver Project.” John Taylor rebarrelled our Rugers using a Green Mountain “gunsmith special” 10mm barrel with 16” twist, rechambering one cylinder for each gun to .40 S&W, and the other to 10x25mm. Later he redid a .357 Ruger Vaquero for Sam Hotton and made a 22" rifle barrel for my pre-WW2 small .410 frame H&R Bunny Gun.

Source brass to make the 10x25mm is either .44 Special, which is then necked down and cut off to 1 inch, or Starline .44 Russian, which we prefer as being less work, simply neck it down and use as-is, resulting in a 0.970-0.975” case. The shoulder angle is 6 degrees, 48 minutes Basic, the same as the .38-40 Winchester. Case body diameter is .454" at the shoulder, the same as the .38-40 and .457" at the base, and the same as the .44 Special.

“DougGuy” made our first set of loading dies by cutting down and honing out .38-40 Lee dies on his Sunnen hone. Doug’s firm price to modify your set of LEE .38-40 dies to 10x25mmR is $150. You supply Lee .38-40 dies, Doug does the mod, and returns your dies insured in small flat rate box. A shortened Lee Quik-Trim case holder, to cut .44 Specials, costs a bit extra.

The die alteration process is as follows:

1) FL sizer and seater are both cut off by 0.4" and a new thread relief is turned.

2) Neck portion of the sizer die is honed inside up to .420" diameter to produce a correct fit for loading .400” jacketed bullets, without expanding, but flaring only.

3) Neck portion of the seater die is honed inside to .429" diameter and the ball seat of the seater die is honed up to .402."

4) IF you want to cut down .44 Special cases, Doug can shorten a Lee .44 Special case holder for the Quik-Trim, by cutting 0.16" off the top. Then you adjust the Quik-Trim to cut the necked down .44 Special cases to 1.000+0.000/-0.005"

5) Once you have fire-formed brass, it is possible to neck-size only by using a 0.525” spacer ring with your .40 S&W Auto dies.

THE MOST SIMPLE WAY TO MAKE CASES is to use Starline .44 Russian cases, neck them down and use them that way! Starline .44 Russian brass comes 0.0960-0.965" long. After necking down to .40 cal. they will be 0.970-0.975". While this is a wee bit short, it causes no problem. The modified .38-40 dies from are purposefully a wee bit short so that you have “wiggle room” to adjust sizing to get an exact fit to your revolver chamber and to produce a correct, heavy roll crimp with either the necked down Russian 0.97” case or the shortened .44 Special 1-inch case.

We elected NOT to get an inside neck reaming die made to thin our case necks. This saved a pile of money in die costs and case making effort. It also results in a more sturdy case which can withstand rough handling, unlike paper-thin .38-40s!. We use our necked down Starline brass as-is. Our first original Manson reamer was ground with a .424" diameter chamber neck, the same as the .40 S&W. This proved OK only if using .400” jacketed bullets in necked down Starline .44 Russian brass, which is about 0.001" thinner than cut-down .44 Special. It did not provide adequate release clearance using cut-down .44 Specials with cast bullets of .401" diameter or larger. Cylinder throats on our revolvers are cut to .4015.”

After John Taylor notified us of the tight-neck condition, we ordered from Dave Manson a separate .429" neck reamer, which he sent to John to enlarge the chamber necks in our revolver cylinders providing the needed 0.005" additional neck release clearance. Based on our feedback Dave Manson revised the chamber neck diameter on the print and anyone ordering this reamer in the future should specify .40/.44 Special Short Harris Rev1-6/18.

Sam and I contemplated having the original revolver cylinder reamer reground to make a rifle reamer, because Sam wanted to rechamber a .40 S&W Bond Arms Derringer and to build a short-stroke cowboy rifle. I wanted to have a barrel made up for The Infamous Bunny Gun. We bounced these ideas off John Taylor and he suggested:

“My thoughts would be to take the revolver chamber reamer you have now and have it re-ground for a sizer die and make a new chamber reamer for the rifle. A chucking reamer for bullet diameter can be used first on a revolver cylinder and then using the rifle reamer with the proper size pilot the chamber in a revolver can be cut. The short throat of a rifle reamer should not make any difference on the revolver. McMaster Carr has a .401 or .4015 chucking reamer at $28.52. With a sizing die reamer new dies could be machined from 12L14 and case hardened. Also, it might be possible to anneal a 38-40 die that will be shortened and cut the die with the new reamer and then have it re-hardened.”

So, Sam and I bought a Rev1-6-18 reamer with .429” neck diameter, having a .402” cylindrical ball seat 0.10” long with 6 degrees, Basic forcing cone. This permits using the Accurate 40-220H or 40-252H bullets as-cast and unsized in the rifle chamber. The reamer John now has is TiCN coated so that it will stay sharp and hold size cutting lots of rifle and revolver chambers! We then had the original reamer reground to a sizing die reamer, so that John can make loading dies for customers also wanting to do this!

Attachment 248435

Initial range trials were conducted firing my converted Blackhawk with its 9mm cylinder rechambered to .40 S&W. Winchester 180-grain FMJFN "White Box" shot to the sights at 25 yards with its rear sight bottomed out. Next I fired .40 S&W hand loads with Accurate 40-182H bullet and 5 grains of Bullseye. Winchester factory 180 FMJs clocked 1043 fps and the Accurate 40-182H with 5 grains of Bullseye 1079 fps from the 5-inch barrel. Hand held off sandbags, running over the chronograph, hand-held six-shot 25-yard groups were 2”.

Attachment 248436Attachment 248437Attachment 248438

Next I fired 10x25mm loads in the rechambered and line-bored .357 Ruger cylinder. The 180-grain Hornady FMJ with 5 grains of Bullseye gave 932 fps with a standard deviation of 15 fps over a six-shot string. Accurate 40-182H with the same 5 grains of Bullseye in the 10x25 gave 1009 fps, an Sd of 10 fps and shot to the sights at 25 yards, just like it did in the .40 S&W. Accurate 40-220H gave 949 fps with a standard deviation of 10 fps and grouped at the top edge of the black on a B15 25-yard timed and rapid-fire pistol target. Indeed, perfect for a 100-yard gong zero.

Next was to test the same RCBS Little Dandy #9 rotor (used to meter 5 grains of Bullseye), but this time using it to meter 7.4 grains of AutoComp in our 10x25Rmm. The 40-182H gave 1138 with a 10 round Sd of 14 fps, and 40-220H gave 1083 fps with a 10-round Sd of 11 and round groups.

Attachment 248439 Attachment 248440

Sam Hotton shot black powder and Trail Boss for Cowboy loads in his converted Ruger Vaquero once he got it back. A dip measure made from a .357 Magnum case holds 20-21 grains of Goex 3Fg or 4.2-4.5 grains of Trail Boss, filling the case “gently to the shoulder without compression.” The maximum black powder charge is 24 grains using a long drop tube or compression die. Sam’s recommended 4.5 grains of Trail Boss is a “full charge” load, with 4.8 grains being the “absolute full stop not to be exceeded,” because Trail Boss should NOT be compressed! Velocities were as as expected, in the low to mid-700s.

I tested Bullseye in lighter charges to find a low recoil smokeless load approximating black powder velocity. A charge of 3.5 grains of Bullseye in the 10x25R case with 40-220H gave 760 fps with a standard deviation of only 7 fps and an extreme spread of 29 fps over a 12-shot string.

Attachment 248441Attachment 248442

By the time the H&R Bunny Gun came back with its 22-inch barrel, I had another new mold from Accurate, the 40-252H, being intended as a heavy bullet "thumper." The 252-grain Accurate bullets with 3.5 grains of Bullseye gave 711 fps with an Sd of 12 fps from Sam's 5-inch Vaquero and 782 fps with an Sd of 7 fps in the 22" Bunny Gun. Using a compressed nominal case full (16 grs.) of IMR4227 with 40-252H produced 1084 fps with an Sd of 12 fps from the Vaquero and 1340 fps with an Sd of 24 fps from the 22-inch Bunny Gun.

Attachment 248443Attachment 248444Attachment 248445

A woods deer gun indeed!

[Bad Ass Wallace]

303 Epps