Rimfire reforming tool.

[JeffinNZ]

Team.

Now I have my mini lathe I have made my own RF reforming tool. Fashioned along the lines of the Paco Kelly tool. It makes a FN or HP bullet and I have been forming the Eley 1970's vintage standard velocity ammo of which I have 5000 rounds. The ammo in original form shoots REALLY well but I want to use it on small game and this is my motivation for the tool.

Here tis:



The RF round is inserted into the forming die which is bored to .2248 and has a very deep rim cavity so there is NIL chance of the ammo rim being squashed. The forming punch is slipped in the top and the collar placed on the die. The collar controls the depth of the punch. The punch is struck with a nylon hammer and the collar removed to allow the punch to push the reformed round out.



Here is the 50m result with HP ammo. Group is similar to the accuracy the original ammo produces and the mushroomed bullet is .40cal in diameter and was recovered at 50m from wet phone books.

[Arisaka99]

Where is the 5th shot?

[scrapcan]

Maybe that is shot string #5 of 4 shots to give a 4 shot group? Or maybe there are two in the same hole?

Jeff,

Nice work on the accurizer. How did the big plat meplat rounds do?

[Bulldogger]

Looks good. Do you have any drawings or plans you'd share? I was thinking of trying for one of Paco's tools, but last time I looked there wren't any readily available, and they are a bit pricey. Yours looks like something I could get a machinst friend of mine to gin up.
What I don't understand is how the cartridge is held so that the primer doesn't risk being set off.
BDGR

[JeffinNZ]

There is two bullets in the top hole.

The FN did not do so well. I think the displacement might be a bit much. I will back the punch of a shade and retry. I only just cracked the HP equation yesterday as my initial punch was displacing too much bullet and ruining accuracy. The secret I found is a skinny punch with a flare at the mouth.

[Marine Sgt 2111]

Yesterday I ran some expansion tests. One cartridge was the Aguila 22 Super Maximum and the other was the CCI Quick Shock. My test vehicle was a Buckmark Field version with a 5.5" barrel and a BSA red dot for sights. The range was 30 yds and water filled milk jugs were the test media.

I modified the 30gr solid nosed Aguila's with a Waltz die to "enhance" expansion (made it into a huge hollow point.). I did not modify theCCI ammo in any way.

The first picture is of the recovered projectile from the first water jug in line with only one of the fragments making it's way into the second water jug.

New filled jugs replaced those that were used and a second test was ran.

The second picture is of the CCI Quick-Shock and two of the three segments that the bullet is divided into. Both of these fragments were found in the second jug in line.

These pictures give new meaning to the phrase flying hand grenade! I am a fan of the Waltz die and think I have found a non-exiting coon load for the barn. Not trying to hi-jack your thread.

[gnoahhh]

You can't argue with results! Before I run down to my lathe and mimic your tools, I have a question. Does the act of punching a hollow point or flattening the nose of a rimfire bullet run the risk of pushing it back into the case a bit? I'm guessing from your pics that it doesn't, but it runs contrary to what I imagine happening when applying that much force to the tip of a relatively fragile .22rf cartridge.

[scrapcan]

gnoahhh,

the 22lr bullet is a heeled bullet. it is tough to set one back in a case.

[gnoahhh]

I understand that. I still wonder if the force applied (granted, it's not much) would be enough to cause some sort of set-back or maybe a slight bulging at the case mouth/crimp. I suppose a tight fitting die body would obviate that, if indeed it's an issue. Just wondering, for this is something I definitely want to try.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I like this set up- simple yet effective.

Looks like everything is made of brass- do you have plans to do it in SS (or steel and then heat treat for hardness) to avoid simple damage and extend life? I would think a tighter fit on the cartridge would prevent the expansion of the case, and ensure universal fit to all chambers.

When are they going to be made available to the general public?

[JeffinNZ]

I like this set up- simple yet effective.

Looks like everything is made of brass- do you have plans to do it in SS (or steel and then heat treat for hardness) to avoid simple damage and extend life? I would think a tighter fit on the cartridge would prevent the expansion of the case, and ensure universal fit to all chambers.

When are they going to be made available to the general public?

I have no plans to make another one. It works for what I want and I think even with my hamfisted ways the brass will survive.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I have no plans to make another one. It works for what I want and I think even with my hamfisted ways the brass will survive.

Darn!



Guess I'll just have to muddle through without one.
Or at least until I can figure out how I can make one with simple shop tools!

[Larry Gibson]

Here's some Blazers with varying degree of nose modification easily done with the Waltz die. I track the degree of modification and test for accuracy with 10 shot groups at 50 and 100 yards. Accuracy does vary with the amount of modification and I look for accuracy with expanstion/terminal ballistics. Too much modification does destroy accuracy also. Once the sweet spot is found for a particular .22LR cartridge the nose punch depth is noted and new cartridges are then easily and quickly modified. Wiht the Lee hand press it can be done just about anywhere. I have mine along with me on this years sojourn across the country from home in Washington to Florida and back. I've already gone through one bulk box of .22LRs and am working on the second purchesed in route. Accuracy and terminal performance remain the same betwee the .22LRs bought in Washington and those bought in Arizona.

Larry Gibson

[scrapcan]

Larry

How does the die work? Do you put your nose punch in the die, cartridge in shell holder, then run into the die?

[JeffinNZ]

LARRY: I found the same as you did. There is a fine line between peak accuracy and patterns on the target.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry

How does the die work? Do you put your nose punch in the die, cartridge in shell holder, then run into the die?

Thats it basically. I have the die body adjusted so the shell holder bumps into it. I can the vary the amount of modification via the depth of the nose punch. Some nose modification is necessary to get the bullets to consistently size at .225 in the die body. Doesn't take much though. I mic the aol from the mouth of the die to the top of the nose puch and record that when testing. That way when I find the sweet spot for a type/make of .22LR ammo for a particular rifle I can repeat that specific modification with the next batch of that type/make ammo I get. I've also found that the sweet spot of modification with most ammo in most rifles is pretty much the same which makes it nice. The Waltz works well with my bolt guns, my HS Sentinal revoler, the M261 sub cal device for the AR and my standard 10/22. With my Col Ace and Browning Challenger the .225 is too large. I use the .223 size in the Paco tool for those. I alo prefer the Paco "Nasty Nose" over the FN Waltz. The HP in either works just as well.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

LARRY: I found the same as you did. There is a fine line between peak accuracy and patterns on the target.

Right on Jeff, I've had several rspond with dissatisfaction with tese tools but when further questioning them they just formed the noses as much as they could without testing in increments. It's not hard to find the right amount of modification and once you do the increase in accuracy and terminal performance on small critters is amazing. Both my tools, Paco's and Waltzs, are well worth the cost and the effort at mosifying the ammo to me.

Larry Gibson

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have one of Paco's tools. His current ones have four holes to give you a wider choice of sizing so that you can use it on different guns.

Mine has one hole straight through, one end is 223, the other is 224 from memory. There is no stop and you just tap it with a soft hammer or piece of wood. It is remarkably consistent once you get the feel of it. It is also made of brass and that is fine as you are just upsetting lead in and not dragging or forcing a boolit through it.

Mine has gone to ground unfortunately and all experimentation is off at this stage until it re-emerges.

[Larry Gibson]

With my 2 hole Paco tool (.223 and .224) I use a drill press stand (Craftsman) that held a hand drill as an arbor press. The drill stop allows accurate adjustment for different amounts of nose modification and repeatability of that adjustment with new boxes of .22LR ammunition. Quite handy but not as "portable" as the Waltz die in the Lee hand press. I use both and sometimes use both to produce a specific modification. I.E., with my Sentinal revolver (as accurate as any S&W .22LR revolver I used) I use the Paco .224 sizer and put a large Nasty Nose on Blazers. I then run them into the .225 Waltz and give them a deep HP which then makes the bullet into a SWCHP and swages them out to .225. Quite accurate, very "nasty" and much more effective on ground squirrels and vermin out of the 6" HS Sentinal than even the high speed lighter weight HPs. Thery are definately much more accurate also.

Larry Gibson

[Four Fingers of Death]

I like the look of that Waltz Die, never heard of them before. For hunting, the Paco hit em' with a soft mallet is fine. I actually did some Fiocci 22LRs for my Baikal Target pistol. The accuracy (always impressive) improved a lot, butttttttttttttttttt, (theres always a but, you get ought for nought!) occasionally one would hang up