The .32 S&W Long as a man-stopper

[Outpost75]

I beg your pardon? What on earth does that mean?

From a debrief of an ELINT mission between Kemoy and Matsu 1960s

https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_fil...old_war_ii.pdf

....The second, owned by the MSTS, was a coastal type vessel with a civilian crew to go along with the NSG people in the SIGlNT compartment.....

[Svt40]

We keep a SW 30-1 3" loaded with Hardcast 100 gr. Flat tip cowboy type bullets over 4grs. Of unique for 950fps for housegun and ccw. What are we scared of? Nothing it hits hard and is accurate!! I might add this load put a 1000 pound plus bull down with one shot in the back of the head.

[Captain O]

I have re-read the entire thread from it's genesis. There has been a lot of good information, and a lot of bigotry and misinformation as well. The point made about the "marginal" power of the .32 S&W Long/Colt New Police is primarily due to the "prudent" (read: mid-range) factory loads produced by the "mainstream" ammunition manufacturers (Federal, Remington, Winchester, Speer, etc.). Buffalo Bore is one if the few "boutique" manufacturers that loads the .32 S&W Long/Colt NP to it's full antipersonnel potential. This provides a new "lease on life" for the S&W Model 30, 31, 32, 631,632, 432, Registered Police, Hand Ejectors and the other post-1920 .32 revolvers. This includes the Colt Cobra, Viper, and other post-1920 Colt revolvers chambered for the .32 Colt New Police and Police Positive.

At the end of the day, a properly loaded .32 Smith & Wesson Long/Colt New Police has the penetration and power to breach the sternum and perforate vital organs sufficiently with the ability to ultimately kill a miscreant bent on violating you. A "cool" head (mental composure) in in conjunction with proper shot placement (marksmanship) are what make any sidearm capable of accomplishing the task at hand.

Isn't that what using a firearm in self-defense is truly all about?

[Svt40]

Yep very well said,with proper load of hard cast flat tip bullet load for stronger well made SW 32 long or New Police it is effective. I would say more so than the 380 that alot carry ccw and more reliable. Rule number one have a gun and know how to use it effectively.

[Outpost75]

I have re-read the entire thread from it's genesis... At the end of the day, a properly loaded .32 Smith & Wesson Long/Colt New Police has the penetration and power to breach the sternum and perforate vital organs sufficiently with the ability to ultimately kill a miscreant bent on violating you. A "cool" head (mental composure) in in conjunction with proper shot placement (marksmanship) are what make any sidearm capable of accomplishing the task at hand.

Isn't that what using a firearm in self-defense is truly all about?

AMEN!

[Captain O]

So many of the companies are attempting to make a "silk purse form a sow's ear". (Pushing the cartridge design beyond it's envelope). With mainstream companies designing hollow point projectiles in an effort to "deposit energy" inside a body.

New Mexico Attorney Erich's quote about shot placement being king and penetration being queen is so true. This applies to all handguns slower and lighter than the 9mm Luger/Parabellum. I believe that while the ammunition manufacturers are trying to make money the honest way, the use of hollow points in slow moving calibers is "wishful thinking" and counterproductive to the desired results. I'll take penetration over expansion anytime.

Today's .380's and .32 "average" autos are generally loaded to their lowest velocities, hampering performance. I understand that they are protecting themselves from frivolous litigation, but without adequate penetration, they are putting the shooter in even more danger. They find themselves "dancing on the edge of a razor blade".

[Outpost75]

All of which makes a .38 snubby loaded with wadcutters as viable a choice as it was for Jim Cirillo and Frank Magee back in the day when the "good guys" in NYC all carried blued .38 Specials and Fed's were introduced at rollcall with the admonishment, "be advised this guy carries an automatic, but he is a GOOD GUY, SO DON'T SHOOT HIM!, they won't be happy!"

[FergusonTO35]

Erich is a real pistolero for sure, I talk to him alot on another forum. He shoots some pretty punishing loads in his J frames, stuff that I won't even feed to my Service Six!

As much as I love the .32 S&W Long, factory support is just miserable for it nowadays. .38 Special just works better for me.

[Captain O]

Erich is a real pistolero for sure, I talk to him alot on another forum. He shoots some pretty punishing loads in his J frames, stuff that I won't even feed to my Service Six!

As much as I love the .32 S&W Long, factory support is just miserable for it nowadays. .38 Special just works better for me.

With the advent of the .327 Federal Magnum eight years ago, one would think that the ammunition manufacturers would "think outside the box" and load both the .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum to their fullest potential and garner as much revenue as they could from the Federal Magnum's "parent" cartridge(s). It would only makes sense to do so. Why they haven't done this, I'm not certain.

It's what you get when you cross an elephant with a rhinoceros... an "Elifino"!

[Outpost75]

With the advent of the .327 Federal Magnum eight years ago, one would think that the ammunition manufacturers would "think outside the box" and load both the .32 S&W Long and .32 H&R Magnum to their fullest potential and garner as much revenue as they could from the Federal Magnum's "parent" cartridge(s). It would only makes sense to do so. Why they haven't done this, I'm not certain...

Magtech attempted to do this by loading a 100-grain JHP bullet for the .32 S&W Long, but between the additional bore drag of a jacketed bullet resulting in lower velocities, and the difficulty of getting reliable expansion at velocities attainable within the SAAMI pressure of about 14,000 psi, not much can be expected. Modern postwar revolvers could certainly handle pressures of 20,000 psi or so, in the same range as the .32 H&R Magnum, but there is not enough customer demand for a .32 Long +P to be profitable.

The best thing is to educate handloaders what can be done safely within the design limits of the revolvers they own, and to ensure that suitably constructed bullets are available. Indeed the components are available and well proven, safe and effective loads are out there which can be exploited by the prudent and experienced handloader.

That was Molly's purpose in starting this thread years ago, and the fact that it has remained popular and continues to attract new contributions is ample testimony to his foresight. He is indeed missed, but he is smiling up there I hope as he reads this.

[Captain O]

Well, Buffalo Bore is doing this with relatively good success. Double Tap or Underwood could enter the market with ease.

Why not?

[Captain O]

Magtech attempted to do this by loading a 100-grain JHP bullet for the .32 S&W Long, but between the additional bore drag of a jacketed bullet resulting in lower velocities, and the difficulty of getting reliable expansion at velocities attainable within the SAAMI pressure of about 14,000 psi, not much can be expected. Modern postwar revolvers could certainly handle pressures of 20,000 psi or so, in the same range as the .32 H&R Magnum, but there is not enough customer demand for a .32 Long +P to be profitable.

The best thing is to educate handloaders what can be done safely within the design limits of the revolvers they own, and to ensure that suitably constructed bullets are available. Indeed the components are available and well proven, safe and effective loads are out there which can be exploited by the prudent and experienced handloader.

That was Molly's purpose in starting this thread years ago, and the fact that it has remained popular and continues to attract new contributions is ample testimony to his foresight. He is indeed missed, but he is smiling up there I hope as he reads this.

Evidently Molly was a good Christian man and is missed by all. He was right in his assessment, but if they were to label some .32 S&W Longs with a +p label, it would sell well and garner some great reviews from the "gunzine" crowd. What could be better than that?

[Outpost75]

Evidently Molly was a good Christian man and is missed by all. He was right in his assessment, but if they were to label some .32 S&W Longs with a +p label, it would sell well and garner some great reviews from the "gunzine" crowd. What could be better than that?

I agree completely. Loading the .32 S&W Long to the same pressure limits as currently done with .38 Special +P (18,000 psi) is not going to blow older pre-WW2 guns up, but is going to LOOSEN them up, eventually taking them out of service which, actually, could be a good thing. It would make the choice collectibles owned by sensible shooters more valuable and eventually reduce the supply of junkers which tend to get passed around and used for less than legal purposes...

A .32 scaled version of the .38 Special lead FBI Load, assembled with a 95-grain lead hollowpoint bullet with ample cavity, shaped like the Saeco #325 SWC and loaded with 2.7-2.8 grains of Bullseye or 3.0-3.2 grains of W231 would be the "recipe," as shown in the second recovered bullet from the left. Slightly expanded bullet at far left is fired from 4" S&W 31 at factory velocity 2 grains of Bullseye, second bullet is 2.5, third is 3.0, which is full H&R Mag load. Farther along the same 2.5 and 3.0 grain loads fired from a Marlin rifle with 20" barrel. Alloy is 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals.

Attachment 162737Attachment 162738

[country gent]

I believe I would got the route the english did with the 38/200. a bullet just long enough to be stable at moderate velocities. Done right when the bullet impacted target it would tumble transfering energy very quickly. One of our best bowling pin loads for my wifes ruger was a 38 spl with 200 grn round nosed bullet at 750-800 fps. This load carried pins off the table extremly well. A 32 caliber bullet in around 140-150 grns ( est) with a flat nose or blunt round nose cast soft would perform much the same.

[Captain O]

If ammunition makers were to mark the ammunition box "for use only in modern revolvers". This would absolve the ammunition manufacturer of any legal problems attributable to the loaded product.

Without fear of contradiction, this would place the .32 S&W Long on an "even footing" with a hard cast SWCL in .38 S&W Special.

"There ya go"! (Dennis Weaver as "McCloud").

[Outpost75]

[QUOTE=Captain O;3567023]If ammunition makers were to mark the ammunition box "for use only in modern revolvers". This would absolve the ammunition manufacturer of any legal problems attributable to the loaded product. Without fear of contradiction, this would place the .32 S&W Long on an "even footing" with a hard cast SWCL in .38 S&W Special...[QUOTE]

All we need is for a distributor to order the first million rounds, and how much of it are YOU going to buy at a dollar a shot?

It'll never happen.

[Captain O]

All we need is for a distributor to order the first million rounds, and how much of it are YOU going to buy at a dollar a shot?

It'll never happen.

Buffalo Bore has effectively done this at lower pressures. All that's required it to raise the pressure (through load development) and marking the boxes with stickers (at a cost of $.003 each). labeling them as "suitable for use only in revolvers chambered for the .32 H&R Magnum/.357 Federal Magnum".

[FergusonTO35]

Ruger now makes the popular LCR in .327, and they have brought back the SP-101 so chambered, so maybe the .32's will regain some lost ground. I wouldn't mind having an LCRx in .327.

[Captain O]

Ruger now makes the popular LCR in .327, and they have brought back the SP-101 so chambered, so maybe the .32's will regain some lost ground. I wouldn't mind having an LCRx in .327.

Put in your order now and begin the wait. (It will be worth the wait).

[FergusonTO35]

Not gonna happen anytime soon, moths are flying out of my pockets!