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Thread: The .32 S&W Long as a man-stopper

  1. #421
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    The Accurate 31-134D when fired from a Ruger with 6.3 grs. of #2400 in .32 S&WLong brass is 900 fps from a 4-5/8" barrel and shoots through both shoulders of a deer broadside. Equal to. 38 Special +P.
    That is remarkable performance. Not to say that I would hunt deer with a 32 S&W Long (or 32 H&R Mag or 327 Federal), but the stated penetration is impressive. I do a LOT of small game and varmint hunting with the RCBS 32-98-SWC loaded to 900-1000 FPS, and these loads reach out and whack critters at pretty good distances and with finality. They totally outclass 22 LR from either sideiron or shoulder arms at equal ranges.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  2. #422
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    The .32 is not my usual choice as a deer gun either, but when some ninny has hit one with her car and it is thrashing around in the road, in the middle of a subdivision, the suffering dumb animal needs to be put down and suffice to say it was the gun available. The trooper who issued a tag for the deer was impressed with the penetration, and didn't cite me for using a popgun.
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  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    That is remarkable performance. Not to say that I would hunt deer with a 32 S&W Long (or 32 H&R Mag or 327 Federal), but the stated penetration is impressive. I do a LOT of small game and varmint hunting with the RCBS 32-98-SWC loaded to 900-1000 FPS, and these loads reach out and whack critters at pretty good distances and with finality. They totally outclass 22 LR from either sideiron or shoulder arms at equal ranges.
    And in this day and age cheaper to shoot too.
    You can miss fast & you can miss a lot, but only hits count.

  4. #424
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Not a "Manstopper," but indeed a serious penetrator with payload and velocity with 130-grain bullet not materially different than same weight in the .38 Special. A compilation of some recent chronograph data fired from my two '70s-era Colts and my 20" single-shot H&R small frame "Bunny Gun" by John Taylor.


    Ammunition Description______________Colt 2"______Colt 4"_______H&R 20"______Remarks

    PMC 98-grain LRN Factory_____________687, 13Sd___797,17 Sd____945, 16 Sd___Highest velocity factory load tested.

    Federal 98-grain LRN_________________n/f_________729, 12 Sd___884, 35 Sd

    Remington 98-grain LRN______________n/f_________643, 24 Sd___825, 17 Sd

    Accurate 31-114D, 2.5 grs. Bullseye____746, 9 Sd____795, 15 Sd___947, 11 Sd Most accurate load

    Accurate 31-114D, 5.6 grs. #2400_____735, 33 Sd___811, 27 Sd___1083, 38 Sd Poor ballistic uniformity, needs more powder or heavier bullet to improve burn.

    Accurate 31-114D, 6.3 grs. #2400_____768, 22 Sd___839, 37 Sd___1205, 22 Sd Vertical stringing, try a heavier bullet to improve burn.

    Accurate 31-125D, 6.3 grs. #2400_____820, 13 Sd___890, 19 Sd___1240, 29 Sd Round groups. Accurate, Cleaner, Better, but still some vertical stringing and unburned powder.

    Accurate 31-134D, 6.3 grs. #2400_____828, 19 Sd___913, 16 Sd___1221, 16 Sd Kicks like a .38!
    Accurate! No pressure signs. Clean burn. Ejected cases fall out easily. Compressed powder charge.
    Performance similar to .32 H&R Magnum or .32-20 Winchester, but with heavier bullet.

    Attachment 147770Attachment 147771Attachment 147772

    Attachment 147773Attachment 147777
    Last edited by Outpost75; 08-29-2015 at 11:44 AM.
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  5. #425
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    Please give us details on the H&R bunny gun sir.

  6. #426
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Pre-WW2 small frame .44/.410 H&R shotgun action. Not "stub" conversion, but scratch-built .32 S&W Long barrel was made from an M1 Garand pull-off, cut off at chamber neck and gas port, then turned down. John Taylor did the work, has done LOTS of work for me. You need to contact him as to current costs. I had barrels made in .32 S&W Long, .38 Special, .45 ACP and .44-40, to enable me to have a .410 shotgun and handgun-caliber rifle combo to accompany whatever handgun I'm taking along. Packs in a suitcase or backpack. Weight about 4 to 4-1/2 pounds, depending on caliber and barrel length.

    Attachment 147799Attachment 147800Attachment 147801Attachment 147802Attachment 147803Attachment 147804
    Last edited by Outpost75; 08-29-2015 at 04:01 PM.
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  7. #427
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    And I thought my "Single-Six Into 32 S&W Long" idea was whack.......those are useful, practical tools, Outpost.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  8. #428
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    Something I found out last night while looking over my spent brass and contemplating why I was seeing extreme spreads of over 150fps... due to the age of this cartridge extending back into the formative years of cartridges it's common to run into balloon and semi-balloon head brass when reloading, and it will have a huge effect on case volume and pressure to the point that if you develop a load with balloon head brass and then use the same load in modern solid web casings you might blow something up. I'm glad I start with starting loads and am not the type to jump right into the midrange or max loads or this might have been a more severe lesson in history for me.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #429
    Boolit Mold
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    Hi Folks! Greetings from India.

    I have read through this thread, and found it interesting and informative.

    I am licensed to own and carry a firearm in India, and only handguns of .32 or smaller are allowed for civilian use. My dad passed on recently, and left me a S&W 31-1 3" in .32 S&W Long. He bought it new in 1982, test fired 6 rounds through it, and put it away in his nightstand where it lay for 33 years. He touched it only to clean it. I fired 50 rounds of Lead Round Nose, and was able to barely penetrate an inch of plywood, and there is only one type of ammo available here.

    (See link- http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data...tion/sc/12.htm ) This should give you a rough idea of performance. The bullet looks to be a 98 grain LRN (it does not specify bullet weight on their website)

    I have thought about shaving 2mm off the tip and converting it to a SWC, or drilling the tip and making it a Hollow Point. Can either of these things be safely done to a live round?

    I did live in the US for several years and a Browning Hi Power 9mm was my preferred choice, and I used to reload my ammo on an RCBS owned by a friend. Mostly 115 and 124 gr FMJ.

    The .32 S&W Long is quite tame by comparison, and while it will never match up to a 9mm, I am trying to expand upon what I can do with the 98gr LRN to make it more effective in a PD role (My licence allows concealed carry).

    Thank you for your time.

    Al

  10. #430
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    The S&W Model 31-1 with 3" barrel is one of the very best which was ever produced for the .32 S&W Long cartridge.

    The .32 S&W Long cartridge as normally loaded in Europe under the CIP standards is loaded to a maximum pressure of 1000 bar, or about 14,500 psi. The modern S&W revolver you have would be safe to use with handloaded ammunition generating pressures up to 1500 bar or about 21,800 psi.

    If limited to mild, factory-loaded roundnosed ammunition, I would not depend upon a hollow-point bullet expanding at all. The simplest way to improve the performance of lead, roundnosed ammunition would be to make a simple trim die from a piece of round steel bar stock, using an "R" gage (.339 in - 8.6mm) drill, or an 8.5mm drill, lengthwise through the cylindrical piece, polishing the hole with emery cloth, if needed, until loaded cartridges will fall into, and out of the drill hole of their own weight.

    After doing so, face the end off square and cut a .375" - 9.5m diameter rim relief cut about .050" - 1.4mm deep. Then turn the piece around in the lathe and cut off the die at an overall length of about 1.2"- 30mm. The exact length not being critical, and chamfer any sharp edges. To use the die, simply drop in your .32 S&W Long cartridges so that the round bullet nose protrudes out the die opening. Rest the cartridge case head on a tabletop or smooth block of wood, and carefully shave the protruding round nose flush with the top of the die, using a sharp pocket knife. Then dress the shortened end square with a file, loading the file teeth with soap or candle wax to prevent the file teeth from being clogged with the lead.

    The trimmed flatnosed bullets will be lighter, about 88-90 grains, and are safe with the existing powder charge. You want a flat nose or "meplat" which is at least 1/2 of bullet diameter and not larger than about 0.7 times bullet diameter, so about 4-5mm is good.

    What you are doing is turning the .32 S&W Long rounds into .32 Colt Special. If you plan on modifying more than just a few rounds, continued filing over time will gradually shorten an unhardened die. I would recommend that you harden the die once you have confirmed that your flatnosed bullets provide the performance you want. With plain carbon steels similar to SAE1050 you can do this easily by heating the die just to "dull red", and then quenching in oil and it will be "file hard" and give good performance for many years.

    I have used a similar die made for .22 LR ammunition to convert Eley Target ammunition to flatnosed shape for hunting edible small game, and carefully done accuracy is not affected at all, but knockdown power is greatly improved. If you have .22 rimfire rifles or handguns, making a similar die is easy to do.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 01-13-2016 at 06:18 PM.
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  11. #431
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    In my opinion, a 32 could work as a concealed carry gun. If you expect it will drop a man, especially one whacked out on drugs, as fast as something larger, your dreaming! As a concealed carry gun, I think the 32 long come's only in revolver's. I love revolver's but for me as a concealed carry gun they are lacking on two point's, they aren't flat enough to lay down as well as an auto for concealment and they lack fire power, meaning the number of rounds available without having to stop and reload. Which bring's up a third factor, speed of reloading. I doubt that in all but the very best and trained hands you cannot MTY and reload a revolver as fast as an auto. The 32 bullet lacks the weight and velocity to deliver a lot of energy inside the target relative to a larger cartridge. To light a bullet at to low a velocity. The one really great thing about the 32 is low recoil and handles well. As the rifle shooter's I know say, bullet placement is everything. Well if you have the time for a precise shot, that might be true but, in self defense how much time you gonna have? I would guess not much. And the target just might be hopped up on drugs, you have to break down and destroy thing's inside the target, 32 is sorely lacking.

    I have and dearly love my S&W mod 16 in 32 Long. For carrying around plinking and even shooting jack rabbits at about 3 lbs each, it is super. But for defense against a charging rabid coyote it is sorely lacking. Forget the 40 lb coyote, how about a 6' 225 lb wacked out drug addict? Of course you may only have the 90 lb weakling to deal with but I think I would arm for the greater threat! I have or have had quite a few different hand guns; 22lr, 32 long, 32 auto,38's (several), a couple 9mm, 357's (several) and a couple 41's. My hands down favorite overall is my 32 long. But I do not kid myself that it is suitable for protection against all comer's! it is fun to throw these thing's around but a bad encounter with the wrong person become's a life and death situation instantly! Use enough gun! A 32 ain't it.

  12. #432
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    What Don said is spot-on, but if the only gun you have with you at the time is a .32 when the balloon pops, you want the most most effective load possible. In strong, modern revolvers it IS possible to handload the .32 S&W Long to equal .32 H&R Magnum or standard .38 Special energy, and while the .32 still may not be your first choice when the manure is sucked into the jet intake, I would rather have a full-charge, flat-nosed, heavy bullet .32 round generating 200 ft. lbs. of energy from an accurate, compact revolver with 4-inch barrel that I shot well, than 9mm hardball or .38 Special lead round-nose, given a choice.
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  13. #433
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    Full agreement with Don's and Outpost's takes on this question. My Model 16 is a -4 variant in 32 H&R Magnum with 6" barrel. It is my most accurate centerfire handgun, period. But even the 32 Magnum at full-tilt remains a marginal choice when other calibers and platforms are available. Now, a full-snort 327 Federal with 115-130 grain bullet of proper form.......maybe. I'm still kinda "married" to 45 ACP--40 S&W--and 357 Magnum, though.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoZombies View Post
    Nothing wrong with a good loaded 32 long in a good pistol like a SW 30-1 or Colt Dick. A good load of a 100gr. Flat nose hardcast at 900+ is very powerful with good penetration. 3.5 to 4 grs of unique with the flat tip hardcast will stop anything with solid centered kill zone shots . We are well protected with a Sw 30-1 3" loaded that way for a house or ccw . What are we scared of ,nothing!

  15. #435
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    We .32 caliber enthusiasts have a secret handshake. It seems sad that people confuse large caliber firearms with their manhood. I have noticed this on more than one forum.

  16. #436
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain O View Post
    We .32 caliber enthusiasts have a secret handshake. It seems sad that people confuse large caliber firearms with their manhood. I have noticed this on more than one forum.
    "Fully adequate for playing "whack a mole" with hypothermic Chinese swimmers armed with knives..."
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  17. #437
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    Any round capable of penetration can be a man stopper, including a .22 air rifle pellet, that takes down feral pigs.

  18. #438
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    I do believe .32 caliber enthusiasts are the antithesis of the "spray and pray" folks also.

    Stu
    De gustibus non est disputandum

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    "Fully adequate for playing "whack a mole" with hypothermic Chinese swimmers armed with knives..."
    I beg your pardon? What on earth does that mean?

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu1ritter View Post
    I do believe .32 caliber enthusiasts are the antithesis of the "spray and pray" folks also.

    Stu
    "Shot placement is king, penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins".

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check