The .32 S&W Long as a man-stopper

[9.3X62AL]

Molly--

Very sorry to read about the bent crane on your S&W roller.

[Texantothecore]

Ok, I will jump in here and offer my .02 ( I shoot .45 in several versions for these reasons):

1. Perps tend to be younger and have higher body mass than in the past. I am astonished at how tall our children are and it may be that the older smaller rounds are going to be less effective due to body mass differences.
2. The presence of drugs in current perps is pretty much uniform and it is much harder to stop a pcp fueled attack of a perp with high body mass.
3. The objective in a defensive encounter is to stop the perp from making the next shot. This is different than tactical shooting. Big calibers are helpful in this regard.

[gunfan]

Ok, I will jump in here and offer my .02 ( I shoot .45 in several versions for these reasons):

1. Perps tend to be younger and have higher body mass than in the past. I am astonished at how tall our children are and it may be that the older smaller rounds are going to be less effective due to body mass differences.
2. The presence of drugs in current perps is pretty much uniform and it is much harder to stop a pcp fueled attack of a perp with high body mass.
3. The objective in a defensive encounter is to stop the perp from making the next shot. This is different than tactical shooting. Big calibers are helpful in this regard.

*yawn* We know all about the .45. that wasn't the subject of this thread. Why don't you go hijack another?

[Newtire]

I recently picked up a little SP101 in .357 mag. My goal was to get something that would fit inside a pocket and this thing does, 4" barrel and all. I do alot of exploring out in the middle of nowhere these days and so opted for the slightly bigger package. If I were still living in Kalifornistan, I wouldn't really have much choice it seemed. Unless you are someone affiliated with law enforcement around where I lived, you weren't going to get a carry permit anyhow. I don't think my choice is ideal for a full time carry gun if you live in a city and wear it to work but this thing is just what I think I need. Someone said once, "Use enough gun."

[gunfan]

I recently picked up a little SP101 in .357 mag. My goal was to get something that would fit inside a pocket and this thing does, 4" barrel and all. I do alot of exploring out in the middle of nowhere these days and so opted for the slightly bigger package. If I were still living in Kalifornistan, I wouldn't really have much choice it seemed. Unless you are someone affiliated with law enforcement around where I lived, you weren't going to get a carry permit anyhow. I don't think my choice is ideal for a full time carry gun if you live in a city and wear it to work but this thing is just what I think I need. Someone said once, "Use enough gun."

Again, how does your choice in armament pertain to hijacking this thread?

Scott

[FergusonTO35]

I'm a huge fan of .32 autos and wheelguns. I would never argue that .32 anything (including the .327) is a great fight stopper. Really, very few handgun rounds are. What the .32 does for me is provide a small pistol or revolver with respectable power (I use reloads) that is very easy to shoot quickly and accurately and can be carried comfortably all day. I can't shoot small handguns in full size calibers at all, anything worse than a snub .38 is useless for me. I can shoot my Kel-Tec P32 and Charter Arms Undercoverette really well, almost as well as a full size 9mm or .38.

I use flat nose cast boolits in my .32's: 75 grains at 900 fps in the .32 Auto and 90 grains at 950 fps in the .32 Magnum. The boolits do flatten out some for a bigger wound cavity but not so much as to become blunt sunflowers like pricey JHP's do. They penetrate really well too. So, yeah the .32 works for me!!

[Newtire]

Again, how does your choice in armament pertain to hijacking this thread?

Scott

I have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. Hijacking thread...what?

[gunfan]

I have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. Hijacking thread...what?

The .357 has absolutely no relation to the stopping power of the .32 S&W Long whatsoever.

Are you certain you understand the thread subject?

Scott

[gunfan]

I'm a huge fan of .32 autos and wheelguns. I would never argue that .32 anything (including the .327) is a great fight stopper. Really, very few handgun rounds are. What the .32 does for me is provide a small pistol or revolver with respectable power (I use reloads) that is very easy to shoot quickly and accurately and can be carried comfortably all day. I can't shoot small handguns in full size calibers at all, anything worse than a snub .38 is useless for me. I can shoot my Kel-Tec P32 and Charter Arms Undercoverette really well, almost as well as a full size 9mm or .38.

I use flat nose cast boolits in my .32's: 75 grains at 900 fps in the .32 Auto and 90 grains at 950 fps in the .32 Magnum. The boolits do flatten out some for a bigger wound cavity but not so much as to become blunt sunflowers like pricey JHP's do. They penetrate really well too. So, yeah the .32 works for me!!

If you want to get enough "chug" for the money, look into buying some Fiocchi FMJ for your .32 Auto 980 fps from a 4" test barrel yields 155 fpe. this is sufficient to drive the slug through either the sternum or skull.

If, or when, you have to shoot someone, you will be using "factory" ammunition and won't be required to explain your choice of pistol fodder in court.

Scott

[JayinAZ]

[Outpost75]

Some great info on the .32 here:

http://shilohtv.com/?p=2720

...."While the .32 ACP is not first choice as a defense gun, it is better to have any gun than none....A pocket .32 is easily carried when you might be tempted to leave a larger gun at home and take your chances. If using a marginal caliber, shot placement, reliability and penetration are most important. Stick to European hardball, such as RWS, Sellier & Bellot, Privi Partisan or Fiocchi, which actually does give 900+ f.p.s...... US makes tested seldom go 850 and use a 71-gr. vs. 73 grain bullet....Flat-nosed cast bullets are more effective than LRN or FMJ hardball.

...."attention is “target focused,” upon the threat, watching the bad guy’s hands, evaluating whether he is friend or foe, being ready to either instantly disappear without notice, or to “shoot and scoot,” always with emphasis on speed. We aren’t talking “first-shot-stops” here, but accurate double or triple taps delivered in two seconds or less. The gun is gripped convulsively and pointed “as naturally as if it was an extension of your finger.”

..." if combat isn’t your job, and you have .....dangerous tasks to perform in that environment, the purpose of a ...gun....is to neutralize immediate threats from contact to 20 feet to facilitate escape. That is all. In the words of the late Harry Archer, “If you stand and fight you’ll never live to shoot them all.” ...rapidity...accurate, multiple hits, combined with low noise....flash and recoil, discreet profile and minimum weight and cube of “the package” mostly compensate for its lower kinetic energy.Attachment 72212

[9.3X62AL]

75--

CZ-50, I presume? Sub-3" at 20 yards with those crude sights is pretty darn good work!

One of my then-authorized carry pistols after my retirement was a Walther PP in 32 ACP. It was a summer/light clothing option for about 5 years until HR-218 came about, at which time my old agency tightened up its retiree carry options from "citizen CCW" standards (32 caliber as a floor caliber, double-action pistol or revolver) to a more restrictive standard--identical to active duty personnel standards, which specs about 300 variants of revolver and self-loaders ranging from 380 ACP/38 Special/357 Mag/9mm/40 S&W/45 ACP. I don't make the rules, and don't break them either.

That said, I don't think there is a huge difference in real-world felon dissuasion between the 380 ACP and the 32 ACP. Neither one is exactly a thunder-gun. The 32 has invariably been more accurate than the 380 in a whole lot of examples I've owned over the years in both calibers. I'll hunt small game and varmints with that PP x 32, but even my best-ever 380 (SIG P-230) wasn't up to jackrabbits past 25 yards or so.

[Outpost75]

Yes, CZ50 is a sleeper. Mine outshoots my Walther PP.

Group WAS sandbagged. But agree with you that the .32s are generally more accurate than similar guns in .380. I think alot of it is because recoil is less and the guns are easier to shoot. The smaller .380s with full-up ammo can be nasty little hand biters.

[9.3X62AL]

The smaller .380s with full-up ammo can be nasty little hand biters.

Indeed, sir. I have a Makarov variant, which is little more than a Walther PP on steroids. It doesn't hammer-bite, but with full-tilt loadings its recoil is kinda surprising. Contrast THAT with a little Colt Government Model in 380 ACP I once had.......recoil-operated, even with top-end loads it was very manageable.

[jumbeaux]

Great reading !!

rick

[9.3X62AL]

Not the first time that a thread dealing with 32 caliber handguns has "gotten legs" and stayed on the board for a good long time. The 32s remain popular with enthusiasts, as the threads bear out. All of these calibers were popular for many years, due to their light recoil and to the small, compact platforms that usually contained them. Are they--in the modern scheme of things--the best caliber for felon-repelling? Perhaps not, but a well-placed 32 ACP beats having no gun and praying for the indulgent nature of a goblin who has already elected to threaten your life over your money, vehicle, or sexual privacy.

[jumbeaux]

Thank you very much for making this thread a "Sticky"...

rick

[mikeym1a]

Any 'handgun' can be a 'man-stopper', if you get the bullet into the correct spot. Any gun is better than no gun at all. I like the .32 because it is light, accurate, and very inexpensive to load. It makes a great training round, and, it is simply fun to shoot. BTW, my 'bed gun' is a S&W hand ejector.

[LouisianaMan]

Came across this thread last night and gave it some time & attention, and found where I'd actually been here way back in early 2011 I'd intended to test some more bullets vs. water jugs and report back with my results. Unfortunately, that got derailed as life intervened with a family medical emergency--funny how that happens while we're making other plans.

Anyway, shooting .32's at perfectly good, water-filled plastic milk jugs ceased for a while until the medical situation improved, and I'm sorry to have missed the fun. Have done a fair amount of load testing since then on arcane calibers such as .38 S&W and 9mm Browning Long, and have encountered some of you on several such threads.

My gun "accumulation" has taken multiple turns since 2011, and although I currently am at zero balance on .32 Autos, I'm happy to report that several revolvers in .32 S&W Long are, ahem, once again in stock. That's actually how I wound up back here, chasing down load recipes Hopefully all other participants in the original conversation are doing well.

[9.3X62AL]

Still using air and upright here.