The .32 S&W Long as a man-stopper

[Larry Gibson]

I consider a good .32 SWL with a proper Keith bullet at 900 fps to be a DANDY edible small game gun

On the other hand, I have found that bullets as big as .44's and .45's can successfully be used without horrible meat loss. Many a bunny or grouse has proven that to me. I can think of no more sporting activity than small game with a proper handgun (pistol, load, bullet and velocity benefit from serious thinking in this regard).

If the truth be known, other than our personal prejudices (yeah, I have them too) the "lowly" .38 Special wadcutter target load makes a FINE edible small game load. For ground hogs, however, a good .38+P, .357 Magnum or even a .44 Special works much better. Ground hogs seem to take a LOT of killing - all out of proportion to their size.


Right on Dale I many times have my M31 .32 S&WL loaded exatly with suc in a pocket when varmint hunting. Never know when a nice tastey grouse or brush bunny will be found. I've also shot a lot of snow shoe rabbits with both the S&W and my Ruger 1st run SS .32 H&R (my favorite small game revolver) or my S&W M15 with 5" barrel using WCs. The old standard 158 RN in 38 SPL is a wonderful grouse round as the bullet kills them DRT yet slips through with little meat damage. Great thread and conversation

Larry Gibson

[Wheeler]

I consider a good .32 SWL with a proper Keith bullet at 900 fps to be a DANDY edible small game gun

On the other hand, I have found that bullets as big as .44's and .45's can successfully be used without horrible meat loss. Many a bunny or grouse has proven that to me. I can think of no more sporting activity than small game with a proper handgun (pistol, load, bullet and velocity benefit from serious thinking in this regard).

If the truth be known, other than our personal prejudices (yeah, I have them too) the "lowly" .38 Special wadcutter target load makes a FINE edible small game load. For ground hogs, however, a good .38+P, .357 Magnum or even a .44 Special works much better. Ground hogs seem to take a LOT of killing - all out of proportion to their size.


Right on Dale I many times have my M34 .32 S&WL loaded exatly with suc in a pocket when varmint hunting. Never know when a nice tastey grouse or brush bunny will be found. I've also shot a lot of snow shoe rabbits with both the S&W and my Ruger 1st run SS .32 H&R (my favorite small game revolver) or my S&W M15 with 5" barrel using WCs. The old standard 158 RN in 38 SPL is a wonderful grouse round as the bullet kills them DRT yet slips through with little meat damage. Great thread and conversation

Larry Gibson

Wouldn't that be a model 30 or 31?

[Kosh75287]

I've read all of this that free time allows. It seems that the argument repeatedly circles around whether we are better armed with an icepick (.32 Whatever) or an axe handle (.4whatever). The icepick can be devastating if the right part of the torso is punctured. The axe handle seems to work with any solid hit to the torso, and sometimes with less-than-solid hits.
I'll take the axe handle.

[Larry Gibson]

Wouldn't that be a model 30 or 31?

A M31 it is.....a mind is a terrible thing to lose........

Larry Gibson

[Molly]

I've read all of this that free time allows. It seems that the argument repeatedly circles around whether we are better armed with an icepick (.32 Whatever) or an axe handle (.4whatever). The icepick can be devastating if the right part of the torso is punctured. The axe handle seems to work with any solid hit to the torso, and sometimes with less-than-solid hits.
I'll take the axe handle.

Not to be cute, but this wasn't intended as an arguement. It was an invitation to share opinions and experiences. Virtually ANY position can be reduced to absurdity with extreme examples. The high velocity fellow can be stumped by noting that despite their extreme velocity, particles of sunlight falling on the skin do not blow away flesh by the pound. And the .40+ caliber fellows get annoyed if you pooint out that a 30 pound bowling ball won't tear off limbs at 10 or 15 MPH.

Truth to tell, bullet diameter (expanded), mass and velocity make perfectly valid contributions to stopping power. More truth to tell, good (and poor) arguements can be made for either position. And the axe-handle guys may be worth their weight in gold when the range becomes arm-length, but there is considerable question whether his handle will be brought to bear in an encounter with anyone competent wielding a .32 or a .45. Or for that matter, a .22 rimfire, which was the immediate cause of death of a long-time LEO friend some years ago.

What's that expression about people who bring a knife (or a club / axe handle) to a gunfight?

[Tar Heel]

Wow. What a read.
There are no absolutes in life and there are definitely no absolutes in a gunfight. I say gunfight because of the thread title: The .32 S&W Long as a man-stopper.

One may be stopped by a 32 or not. One may be stopped by a 45 or not. Don't ever forget the intent or steel of the person delivering the shot. That probably has more to do with "stopping power" than anything else. In other words, calm deliberate accurate fire.

Years ago we had an officer shot in the arm with a 22LR. He died of shock. I saw "suspects" hit with a magazine of 9mm who survived. Go figure.

So is the 32 a "Man Stopper"? Yes and no.

[gunfan]

I have just purchased two older handguns in the .32 S&W Long caliber:

a) An H&R Model 733 (that's a nickel-plated 2 1/2" barreled revolver) that is virtually NIB, complete with paperwork and box, and

b) a Taurus Model 74. This is Nickel-plated, medium-frame revolver with a 3" barrel from what I can see, it is in NRA 98% condition. (This model was manufactured between 1971 and 1978 by Taurus of Brazil.)

Having owned .32 caliber revolvers for a number of years, if one loads these handguns with a 98- grain SWC bullet ahead of a HEALTHY dose of Unique propellant, one can attain velocities approaching (or exceeding 940) fps. This will yield about 192 fpe. These are the energies one can from a VERY stout .380 (read: Buffalo Bore.)

When applied to a .32 caliber slug and placed accurately, the .32 S&W Long can be (and has been) QUITE effective. The inherent accuracy of the round, even in the less expensive revolvers, continues to impress even the most jaded pistoleros.

I have dropped one of these in my jacket pocket, or shoved one in the pocket of my slacks when I take out the trash. (My neighborhood abuts one of dubious distinction, thanks to the drug traffic that continues in our fair city.)

I am an accurate shot with most handguns. while I tend to favor my 10mm Auto pistols or my .357 Magnum when they are convenient, I can shoot the little .32 S&W Long revolvers with consummate skill and accuracy. By God they are handy! If I can dump 6 100-grain LWC .32 caliber slugs in someone's head or chest in less than 3 seconds, I doubt that they'll be anxious to come back for more... if they're alive to do it!

*sigh* It works for me!

Scott

[gunfan]

Would anyone recommend driving 3% tin, 3% antimony and 2% silver for use in the .32 S&W Long and eschewing the gas check, when driving it toward the higher velocities? I'm not seeking expansion by any means, just penetration.

A little help here?

[Bret4207]

Would anyone recommend driving 3% tin, 3% antimony and 2% silver for use in the .32 S&W Long and eschewing the gas check, when driving it toward the higher velocities? I'm not seeking expansion by any means, just penetration.

A little help here?

Silver? Why in the world would you want silver in there? Straight WW alloy with maybe 1% tin added will work just fine. If you want them harder than the 11-12Bhn you'll get with that alloy AC, then water quench them and they'll be up in the 18 area. And if it's made for a GC, why leave it off? To save money when you want to add silver? No offense, but I'm not following your thought here.

I've been shooting the 32-20 and 32 S+W/Long/Mag for 30+ years. A FN design out of even the tiny 32 S+W will do a fine job on small game up to coyote size within range. The Long and 32-20 will kill all out of relation to their size. I have no qualms about using anything in 32 cal for 95% of my needs.

[gunfan]

Oregon Trail Bullets Makes an EXTREMELY hard cast bullet with 2% silver in its alloy. They have been doing this for a number of years and it seems to have worked.

Their bullets have been consistently been driven in excess of 1300 (and as high as 1600 fps) WITHOUT leading.

This is why I suggested such an alloy.

Scott

[waksupi]

I doubt the silver helps. I push wheel weights up to around 2700 fps with no leading. I imagine the silver is just left in from the smelting process,as much of our lead comes as a bi-product of silver and gold mines.

It's a sales gimmick.

[Bret4207]

Oregon Trail Bullets Makes an EXTREMELY hard cast bullet with 2% silver in its alloy. They have been doing this for a number of years and it seems to have worked.

Their bullets have been consistently been driven in excess of 1300 (and as high as 1600 fps) WITHOUT leading.

This is why I suggested such an alloy.

Scott

Well, thats fine. But i have boolits of straight WW that aren't all that hard that I've driven well over 2000fps without leading. Bhn has little to do with leading. Fit is King as far as stopping/avoiding leading, not Bhn. I guess that explains why you wanted the silver, but if you are really looking for super hard then go with a high Sb boolit with a goodly amount of arsenic and water quench them. I've taken them past 30 Bhn, they were no better than my softer ones.

I bought a box of 500 of those boolits that advertised they had silver in them, I thought they were Lazer cast, but maybe they were Oregon Trail. The ad said they had silver and they were HARD. They leaded like crazy and I ended up melting about 400 out of 500 down and mixing it with WW alloy. Silver, hardness, none of it matters if the booit doesn't fit.

If you really want to make an effective 32 cal boolit then start with a good FN design. I like the Lyman 311316 and 311631. There are others available that are good too. Start there and find a balanced load your guns like.

[gunfan]

I'll just have to have my bores slugged and tailor the loads accordingly. I want to drive a 98-grain bullet at, or about 940 fps from the 3" barrel of my little Taurus Model 74. (The darned thing is as lightweight as an "I" frame S&W!) If I can accomplish this, I'll obtain about 192 fpe from the load.

This should be adequate for both SD and small game hunting.

Again, Thanks.

Scott

[gunfan]

From Gunblast.com when it came to the "lowly" .32 S&W Long:

"Lefty Lewis told me a story of a 20th Century Western sheriff who was involved in a number of shootings during the “Roaring 20’s”. His weapon of choice was a revolver chambered for the .32 Long cartridge. It was said that he killed as many miscreants as any of his law enforcement contemporaries, which points out that a cool head, accuracy and thinking on your feet most often have more effect than the weapon you use in a gunfight."

Think about it.

Scott

[Hang Fire]

Charles Bronson used that .32 revolver to pretty good effect in "Death Wish". Just saying. );>)

[gunfan]

Hollywood strikes again!

Scott

[gunfan]

From Gunblast.com:

The Long variation came along in 1896 with the introduction of Smith and Wesson’s first hand ejector revolver. It received a jump-start as a police cartridge when Commissioner Theodore Roosevelt acquired the Colt New Police revolver as the standard arm for the New York City Police Department. Roosevelt was deeply impressed by the extremely poor marksmanship of the NYC officers and it seems likely that he chose the .32 for its light recoil rather than any great regard for the small bore as Man-Stopper. Whatever the reasoning, the Colt and Smith .32 Longs were quickly adopted by several northeastern police agencies and the cartridge remained a police standard for some time to come. The round proved very accurate and gained worldwide acceptance as a target cartridge. Colt, Smith and Wesson, Charter Arms, Taurus and others produced substantial numbers of .32 S&W Long /Colt New Police revolvers right up until the development of the .32 H&R Magnum Cartridge. In the late 1960s, Dean Grennell experimented with uploaded rounds in his K 32 while promoting development of a .32 Magnum as a small game cartridge - an event that didn’t take place until about 20 years later. In the 60s, handbook entries carried 100- grain bullet loads up to the 1,000fps mark and into the low-magnum performance range.

In the present day, there is a general dearth of truly small-framed .32 Magnum revolvers and the old quality Colts and small-framed Smiths continue to cause considerable excitement among handgun enthusiasts. Even those who like the little revolvers frequently regard it as a novelty and disparage the .32 Long as a practical round. Several factors combine however, to give the cartridge an excuse for being:


A 90 to 100 grain bullet pushed by 2.0 grains of powder is going to produce less recoil than 148 grain .38 wadcutter shoved along by 2.8 grains of the same powder to near-equal velocities;

The .32 Long Cartridge loaded with fast-burning powder delivers more on-target energy than the .22 rimfire rounds regardless of barrel length;

The .32 generally performs more efficiently from the oft-encountered 3-4” barrels than do the .22 Long Rifle or Magnum rounds delivering less round to round variation and often exhibits better accuracy;

The .32 Long is different enough to be different - an important consideration whenever you get tired of everything being the same.



Lots of FUN, too!

Scott

[Molly]

I haven't visited this thread for a while, and maybe it's run its course. But I don't think we've exhausted it quite yet. How about expanding it just a little with some of your favorite loading data for the .32 Long? Heck, toss in the .32 H&R Mag too. No liabilities invovled, as anyone experienced to be loading handgun ammo surely know enugh to check his loads against published data, because misprints can happen, if for no other reason. All data to be provided only for reading and consideration, Anyone using these data without checking on it does so at his own risk.

I'll start with a couple that I'm becoming quite fond of:
32 Long case, a hard cast Lyman 311316 sized 0.313, Alox beeswax lube, Hornady GS, seated well out, without exposing lube. Powder is H-110. Charge is 7.5g under 311316 FN and 8.0g under the blunter NOE 32-115 (keith style SWC) These loads are warm,butnone show excessive pressures in my guns, and I don't think theyre max, but they may be close to it.

How about you guys? Got anything you're proud of?

[Dale53]

Here is some I use quite frequently:

.32 S&W Long case with 1.8 grs. of Bullseye behind a hollow base wadcutter (90 grs).

.32 S&W Long case with 2.6 grs of 231 behind a 100 gr cast Keith (group buy mould).

.32 H&R Magnum with 11.0 grs of H110 behind the Keith 100 gr. Keith bullet.

Dale53

[gunfan]

Here is some I use quite frequently:

.32 S&W Long case with 1.8 grs. of Bullseye behind a hollow base wadcutter (90 grs).

.32 S&W Long case with 2.6 grs of 231 behind a 100 gr cast Keith (group buy mould).

.32 H&R Magnum with 11.0 grs of H110 behind the Keith 100 gr. Keith bullet.

Dale53

Dale,

What velocities do those loads yield, and from what handguns?

Perspiring minds want to know!

Scott