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Thread: 257 Robertsx6.5mm Arisaka Rounds ?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
    DoctorBill's Avatar
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    I removed the Scope and here is the top front of the receiver.



    This is a close up of the Japanese Letters (pictographs) -
    of course one of the scope mount holes is right in the middle of it...



    Anyone have any idea what this says ? Did I show it upside-down ?

    The Chrysanthemum has been ground off - if it ever had one (?).

    I think there is a 'series five' mark right next to the right side of the
    serial number. A "K" with a horizontal line thru it. Should be on the left side (?) !
    http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html

    The whole serial number is 5002581 then Mukden Arsenal (Manchuria)
    symbol then the crossed out 'K'.

    The bolt has the number 581 on the top of the bolt handle where it is 90° angled
    and a series 26 mark (slash) followed by a "3" - same 'slash 3' on the extractor's side.

    So...now I am confused because the Mukden Arsenal did not have a series 5 run...

    The barrel has no front sight and is 22.75 inches from the front to
    where it screws into the receiver.

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 12-26-2010 at 11:24 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  2. #42
    Boolit Master


    HangFireW8's Avatar
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    You are showing it sidewise.

    The top 3 horizontal lines are the number "3".

    The middle Kanji used to be an "8".

    Last Kanji is a Counter symbol.

    Taken together, "Type 38".
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
    Do you trust your casting thermometer?
    A few musings.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    Aaaah...soooo.....

    Thank you !

    Some pics of the reloaded ammo - God knows how old these reloads are !



    Whoever reloaded this did not size open the necks all the way down to the shoulder.





    This Brass is primed but not neck sized to 6.5mm.




    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 12-27-2010 at 02:11 AM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  4. #44
    In Remebrance


    Bret4207's Avatar
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    Not bad. Get thee a bullet puller, pull the bullets, toss the powder. You'll find dies on Ebay or here for not too much. CH4D also has them. 257 Roberts data will give you a start.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master


    frkelly74's Avatar
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    Let the fun begin. You will learn a lot about reloading with this rifle. I would use 6.5 x55 data for starting out. Pressures are safe and case capacity is comparable and bullet weights the same. go slow and make sure that if you form brass that the empty cases chamber with some slight resistance. You want a slight crush fit so that you don't have an excess headspace condition which will lead to head separation and a face full of smoke. Wear your glasses.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    The bullet right at the base measure .263 to .264 - so I believe they
    will shoot OK.

    The seller said they were purchased at a gun show and were reloaded for
    a 257 Roberts x 6.5mm Japanese.

    Once fired, the necks should be opened up.

    I have to study all this business of using other sized dies in various
    combinations.....I am confused right now.

    Also - I don't like to see that corrosion !

    The CH4D DIE set is $79 !
    http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/ch4d1094.html
    They don't elaborate as to what you get.

    RCBS has one for $92 from 30-06 brass
    http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/wildcatcustom.html
    https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/Mai...te=C09J155N166

    FL for $143
    https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/Mai...te=C09J155N142

    Did you say "CHEAP" ?

    DoctorBill
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  7. #47
    Boolit Master

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    DoctorBill,

    Look up the thread a bit, you had an offer of a set of dies for the round.

  8. #48
    In Remebrance


    Bret4207's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBill View Post

    The CH4D DIE set is $79 !
    http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/ch4d1094.html
    They don't elaborate as to what you get.

    RCBS has one for $92 from 30-06 brass
    http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/wildcatcustom.html
    https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/Mai...te=C09J155N166

    FL for $143
    https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/Mai...te=C09J155N142

    Did you say "CHEAP" ?

    DoctorBill
    Bill, IIRC I got mine off Ebay for $12.00 a couple years back. As Smokey's Mama told him- shop around!

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    I don't know about other folk on this Forum, but I now have about ten (10)
    different
    caliber Military Surplus rifles - many with oddball sized bores and my head
    is swimming with calibers and bullet sizes and brass dimensions !

    I get lost at times trying to keep it straight in my feeble, cigar smoked brain.

    Now this 257 Bob x 6.5mm business will surely make me crazy.

    I keep having to remind myself that it has been re-chambered to 257 Roberts
    but is actually a 6.5mm (.264) bullet.

    I have not gotten to the point of some of you guys who live, dream, eat and breath
    reloading...not that that is a bad thing, you understand.

    ...and just about when I start getting it all straight in my head, I find
    another MilSurp oddball that I just have to have !

    "Life is tough, then you die".


    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 12-27-2010 at 03:28 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  10. #50
    Boolit Master
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    Been studying the different Brass that has been recommended to use in this
    rifle and photoshop'ed them together into two charts.
    Maybe this will help others doing this same thing.....



    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



    Took the graphics from the Lyman Reloading handbook - 49th Ed.

    I have the LEE reloading DIES for the 6.5mm Swedish - I can use that
    neck expander pin.

    DoctorBill
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  11. #51
    Boolit Master HORNET's Avatar
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    DoctorBill,
    Check the dimensions of the case neck section of the chamber before you go too far. Mine has to have the cases neck turned to 0.013" MAXIMUM for 0.264" jacketed boolits, 0.0115" for .268 cast boolits. It's a little snug...
    BTW, I've made cases from .30-06. Not fun. LOTS of trimming, neck turning, then reaming after fire forming to get rid of the donut. My current brass is made from .257 Robts, but I've got a big bag of 6mm Rem. waiting as replacements.
    It shoots better than I can see with a receiver sight anymore.
    Rick
    ____________________________
    If it looks plumbous, I'll probably try making bullets out of it. Dean Grennell

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    I just now slugged the barrel.

    4 lands / 4 grooves - the edges are rounded as per Metford type rifling.

    .253 - .268 inch dimensions.

    That makes them 0.0075 inch deep.

    Is that worn or not ?

    What would the "New" rifling have been, most likely ?

    I have one pound of "CerroSafe"
    http://www.4-dproducts.com/submenu/Cerosafe.htm
    and am thinking of doing a chamber casting.....

    DoctorBill
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  13. #53
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207 View Post
    Not bad. Get thee a bullet puller, pull the bullets, toss the powder. You'll find dies on Ebay or here for not too much. CH4D also has them. 257 Roberts data will give you a start.
    Bill,

    Bret has given you some good advice. The uneven seating depths and lopsided necks are both screaming out "Pull me down." The brass and primers are probably okay, but I would definitely dump the powder; whoever loaded those rounds obviously did not take pride in their work.

    Remember, it is better to be safe than sorry.

    Robert

  14. #54
    Boolit Master
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    I kinetically pulled one of the longer cartridges.

    Here is what was inside -



    the bullet measures 0.262 dia - powder has no odor.

    Here is one of the shorter cartridges opened -



    Bullet measures 0.262 dia - powder stinks !

    These cartridges look to be quite old.

    I will empty all and fire off the Primers, too.
    No reason to depend on the primers if I reload these....
    The powder will be piled up on my gravel driveway and ignited.

    Actually - I wonder if these Brass Cases are safe to reload ?

    Side note - I am buying 67bear's CH 257 Roberts x 6.5mm Dies for $50.

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 12-27-2010 at 11:19 PM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    Why not just spread the powder out all over your yard. It makes fine fertilizer. After a few rains or snows it will be no more....
    CLAYPOOL

  16. #56
    Boolit Master
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    I just had a better idea !

    I have a BIG problem with Moles....they are plowing my yard up and
    nothing I do seems to bother them.

    Perhaps I'll mix this old decomposing smokeless powder with some
    flowers of Sulfur and smoke the buggers out come Spring...

    Either that or make some firecrackers for the 4th of July.

    If I fertilize my lawn, I'll have to mow more often. No way.

    That would cut into my lounging around on my lawn chair drinking
    Beer and smoking cigars !



    I actually look much better than that.

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 12-28-2010 at 02:26 AM.
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    Well you have a 6.5 bore on a 257 Roberts case which is nothing more than a 7x57 mauser case necked to 25 calibre so wouldn't that make it a standard 6.5x57 mauser?. Pat

  18. #58
    Boolit Master
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    Once I get the AC 257 Roberts x 6.5mm Die Set and start reloading,
    what should the OAL of the cartridge be ?

    The original 6.5mm Arisaka round was 2.992 inches according to LEE,
    Modern Reloading, 2nd Ed., Page 305.

    Would the re-chambering process likely change that dimension ?

    BTW - who did those re-chambering's ? Anybody and everyone, or was
    there a common re-chambering business back in the past ?

    DoctorBill
    I would just like to ask -
    WHOM does our Current Government represent, anyway ? !


    It sure as Heck doesn't represent ME ! How about you ?
    Seems to be just a Big Mafia run by the current set of criminals in office.
    Have we EVER been this close to losing our Country ? !

  19. #59
    Boolit Master

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    It would be my suspicion that just about anyone could have done the re-chamber. In times past we as a society were much more willing and able to do this type of work ourselves. Firearms were easier to procure, tooling was easier to find, and almost every garage had some tools and some experience to use them.

    coupling the lack of ammunition, components, and tooling for some of the bring backs or surplus arms of earlier times, one had to re-chamber to use them. Remember that when your rifle was likely converted, one could buy the rifle through the mail and tooling the same way.

    I have seen a bunch of 8mm mauser rifles that were converted to 8mm-06 accompanied by a set of 30-06 dies that were also converted by a mere opening of the neck in sizing and seating die and a re sized expander ball, on set did not even have a different expander ball. Markings on dies were not changed other than hand written notes in or on the card board boxes.

    Much different times then than now. But I am sure they would be just as amazed at what our society can do with technology today as many of us are with their ability to do things mechanically.

  20. #60
    Boolit Grand Master
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    To add to what manleyjt said, I understand that the American Rifleman had a lot more technical articles in it during the 1940's and 50's.

    As to cartridge length, I think either your rifling origin or your magazine length will set that.

    I have one of these rifles, but have never really done anything with it. So many projects, so little time.

    Robert

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check