257 Robertsx6.5mm Arisaka Rounds ?

[Trifocals]

In the late '50's/early '60's I had a 6.5 Jap that had been sporterized and it was a real beauty. I recall that I traded a nice 1 1/2 hp Evinrude outboard motor for it. 6.5 Jap brass (boxer primed) was very expensive and hard to find. I had a local gunsmith rechamber it to 6.5/.257 Roberts. At the time, I had a great abundance of .30-06 brass that I used to make 6.5/.257 Roberts brass. It has been too many years for me to remember the particular bullet and powder I used, but it easily shot MOA groups at 100yds using a 2 1/2X Sears (Weaver) scope. I used it to bag a trophy buck antelope. As was mentioned in a previous post, they have a very strong action (ref: P. O. Ackley). Insofar as ugly, the only thing ugly is the big round knob on the rear of the bolt. It functions as a safety as well as a gas deflector. Very good thinking on the part of the designer. Weld on a decent bolt handle and it doesn't look bad at all. In retrospect, I kind of wish I had never gotten rid of the one I had. There is a local dealer who has a sporterized 6.5 Jap chambered for the 6.5 Rem. mag. Of all the modern rifles he could choose to hunt with, he prefers the Jap. I certainy would not turn my nose up at a nicely sporterized 6.5 Jap as long as it had a good barrel and was not a "beater" or one of the "last ditch" wartime production rifles.

[Safeshot]

You might want to try about 100 jacketed bullets first. Then if the rifle shoots to suit you and the bore "cleans up" go to cast bullets. It will also help in getting the bore CLEAN. Clean the bore after each 20 rounds of jacketed bullet rounds fired.

Graf & Son lists 6.5mm bullets on their web site as:
"PRVI BULLET 6.5MM (.264) 139gr SPBT 100/BAG
Our Price: $19.99
In Stock
Item #: PPB264SP139
Volume Discounts Available".

These 6.5 bullets shoot better in a 6.5/.257 Roberts that I loaded for than ANY other 6.5 mm bullet.

Ditto on using a 7mm Mauser sizing die for sizing the "body" of the case and a 6.5 mm Swedish sizing die for neck sizing (and bullet seating. (Lee dies do not cost much if you get the RGB two die sets. Be sure to adjust the dies to get proper headspace for your rifle. You can also use 6.5mm X 57mm Mauser loading dies (both sizing die and bullet seating die) IF you adjust the dies properly.

7mm Mauser brass or 257 Roberts brass seems to work very easy for resizing to the 6.5mm/.257 Roberts.

I have heard that some of the 6.5mm Japanese rifles have oversized bores. (Either made that way or just worn that way.)

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. You might just offer $105.00 for the rifle. The $20 saved would buy the first 100 jacketed bullets from Graft & Son.

[DoctorBill]

Great - now I starting to see some good arguments.....

As to your last statement, Trifocals, "...I certainly would not turn my nose up at a nicely
sporterized 6.5 Jap as long as it had a good barrel and was not a "beater" or
one of the "last ditch" wartime production rifles."

.....one of the "last ditch" wartime production rifles.

How would I know if it was a last ditch rifle ?

I just asked him for the serial number.

Have to hit the sack - it is 10:25 PM here.

Merry Christmas ! .....not "Happy Holidays" !

DoctorBill

[frkelly74]

the 6.5 type 38 predates the 7.7 type 99. I believe that there are no last ditch type 38 rifles. No worry there.

[DoctorBill]

The seller has answered my inquiry about the Serial Number.
I then called him.

"50025xx" is the serial number, he said. I'll be looking up dates,
the Jap symbol is to the right side of the SN and is two concentric
circles with three lines radiating out from the center circle.

He can't find any importer's markings.

According to
http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html
This rifle was from the Mukden Arsenal (Manchuria) circa 1931-1945

Made in CHINA (isn't everything!)

http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearm...E-ASKING-.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Been thinking about this using .257 Roberts Brass in this Arisaka.

Tell me again how do I obtain the Brass ?

Have patience - I just woke up and the Coffee hasn't worked yet.

1. If I can obtain New unfired Brass cases, I use a Die to expand the neck.

2. If I obtain pre-fired .257 Roberts Brass, then I treat it as per No. 1 above.

3. I cannot use .257 Roberts unfired ammo because the slug is too small.

As to No. 3 above - I could pull the slugs (kinetically), empty out the powder,
fire the primers off, and then proceed as per No. 2 above.

If I have only this one particular Arisaka that I shoot, then I won't need to Full
Length size the Brass, just do the neck sizing....

Is that the correct approach ?

I suppose one could split the necks expanding from .257 to .264 on
unfired brass - lose some that way ? Anneal the cases first ?

This "Jimcrack" methodology bothers me somewhat....dealing with an 'explosive'
situation, as it were.....

Also - this can't be a "Last Ditch" piece of Krapp....predates that situation...OK !

Will buy the rifle on Monday.....oh well !

BTW - the owner said they fired .257 Roberts ammo thru it (zip accuracy) and had
no blowback - he figures the neck expanded too quickly to allow blowback. (?)

DoctorBill

[TCLouis]

Just buy any of the ?X57 brass (257, 6MM, 244, et. al.) and run through a set of 6.5X257 dies. If they have live primers, just remove the decapping pin.

I have formed most of mine recently from 7x57 brass because at the time I could get it easier, that requires firforming as the shoulder angle should be different. Opening neck of new brass from 257 to 6.5 may cause you to lose one or two per hundred.

The first brass I used to make ammo back in the 60ws was WWII machine gun brass and I sill have it.

Load and shoot. I would be willing to bet the box of 257 ammo he has is really correct for the rifle. Check the bullets against the muzzle of the rifle for confirmation I would still pull the bullets and reload using the primers that are in it.

That model was NEVER made in last ditch configuration, they were complete long before WWII started.

If you decide against buying it please PM me a contact for it, I would take it for the price he offered and shipping to my FFL.

JonB I like the sight on your rifle, It looks like it was hand made specifically for that gun, at least I have never seen any quite like it.

Unmolested Type 38s or carbines, I know someone that has one or two!

[runfiverun]

i made mine from 6 mm rem brass.
i necked most of my 257 up to 7 mauser.
even once fired it made the trip easily.
make sure they will chamber,or you'll have to bump the shoulder back a bit.
6.5 mauser or 6.5x 257 dies are not that hard to fine wells, and hollywood made them and i am sure lee and rcbs still does.
once you fireform you can neck size a few times then bump the shoulder again.

[frkelly74]

It is do-oable, just go one step at a time.

[Pepe Ray]

Firing a 257 Bob in a re chambered Arasaka would be like firring a 243Win in a 308Win. Chamber, doable but NOT recommended.
Also the original ammo will be too short and will separate or worse.

Don't know beans about Wikkie & don't care to,
Use your head.
Pepe Ray

[67bear]

If you buy the rifle and need a set of dies, PM me. I've got an old set of CH dies for it that I don't have a rifle for. If you're not going to buy the rifle I'd like contact info for it, after anyone else that's asked has passed.

[publius]

JohnB in Glencoe,
That is one of the nicest sporterizing jobs I've seen in a while. The mannlicher stock stays true to the original design and just "looks right".

[HangFireW8]

If this Arisaka has been re-chambered for the .257 Roberts round, why would there
be this statement about such in Wikipedia ?

"Neither unmodified .257 Roberts ammunition nor the original 6.5x50mm Arisaka
ammunition are suitable for firing in rechambered Arisaka rifles."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.257_Roberts

I don't understand....I guess I am slow witted.

Or does Wikipedia have its head up its collective behind ?

Wikipedia does have its issues, like the guy who works for BAE who keeps guard on the GCV page and insists it will only replace General Dynamics vehicles.

I think the warning is OK as far as it goes, if you read it carefully. Don't shoot standard 257 or standard 6.5 ammo in a wildcat 257-6.5 chamber. Fireforming necked-up brass is not "unmodified".

-HF

[frkelly74]

There you go. Info and a set of dies available. Life is good.

[madsenshooter]

I bought a set of 6.5x57 dies. Then I bought some 7x57 brass. The 6.5x57 dies will leave the shoulder tight and longer than 6.5x257, but the bolt has enough camming action to finish closing the action.

[DoctorBill]

I told the seller to meet me - I'll be buying it for $125.

When I have it, I will put pics on ParallaxBill's site and discussing the
reloading here.

Thank you all for your help and comments !

DoctorBill

What is next....? Is there a good French MilSurp ?
Trying to acquire a rifle from each country.
I have the following -
U.S.
English
Czech
Italian
Chinese
Swiss
Swedish
Romanian
now Japanese

[Trifocals]

One of the major goals of this forum, I believe, is to share info & knowlege. I just learned that the 6.5 Jap rifles were never produced as "last ditch" rifles. Years ago I had been told that they were. Thanks for the correct info. I try to be humble enough to admit when I am wrong and I certainly am not a foremost authority on everything. May each and every shot be an "X" or help keep your stew kettle full.

[Bret4207]

Bill, I have a 6.5 Roberts Arisaka much like Jons that I got for a c-note. My stock is one of those fugly Bishop Mannlichers from the early 60's complete with oak leaf carvings along the cheek piece. It wears a Redfield peep and shots everything I've tried in it under 2" at 60-70 yds. I've done zero load development, just pick up loads from old manuals. I'm using up a lot of 85 gr Sierras I bought for a disastrous 6.5-06 project. My particular example weighs in at a little less than my Winchester 94 and is a very slender rifle, very nice for a walking rifle. The safety is fine once you get used to it, maybe not quick, but it's better than many modern safeties as far as actually working. My trigger is fine too. The barrel looks worn but okay. I haven't done much cast shooting with it.

I hate to say it, but this cheap little rifle really grows on you. I hope you find the same of yours.

[67bear]

Is there a good French MilSurp[/B] ?

Yes, the Berthier.

[frkelly74]

I was just looking mine over again and I remembered that to use the safety easily you just push forward on the knurled cap with the heel of your hand and rotate your wrist clockwise to set the safety and reverse to deactivate. Easy and quiet with practice. Not so easy if you have a scope on though. It will lock up the bolt like the Mosin safety does.

[DoctorBill]

Just got home with the Arisaka.

Ran some Hoppe's No. 9 thru it - came out clean.

Here are some photos - more to come in a while.






I want to remove the scope mounts and have a look at the engravings
on top of the receiver.

Edited in later:
The Scope is a "C to C" 2.5x - 8x32 Nitrogen Filled, 'Permanently Centered Reticle"
made in Japan. (Not China!) mounted with Weaver Rings.

There is no Chrysanthemum - a dimple where it would be and polished and
re-Blued over - probably by the folk who re-chambered it. Looks new there.

Some Japanese pictographs - having trouble with photographing it -
have to set up some lights.
DoctorBill