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Thread: 257 Robertsx6.5mm Arisaka Rounds ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    257 Robertsx6.5mm Arisaka Rounds ?

    Edited in Long After I started this Thread....
    This thread, as it turns out, became mostly about trying to use OLD Brass that
    that I got with the rifle that gave me problems. Just an FYI. DoctorBill



    Locally there is for sale an Arisaka converted to .257 Roberts x 6.5mm.
    http://www.spokaneguntrader.com/view...php?f=3&t=5012

    I am curious enough to buy that rifle if I can reload the ammo w/o
    spending more for the reloading paraphernalia than the rifle.

    I need to know more.

    I found out that RCBS has a mold specifically for this round.
    RCBS Dies are expensive, tho.

    How does one get .257 Roberts Brass - lot around or scarce ?

    Uses standard 6.5 mm cast bullets ? How about the Cruise Missile ?

    Is that rifle worth having or would it be an Albatross around my neck ?

    DoctorBill
    Last edited by DoctorBill; 01-08-2011 at 04:21 PM.
    Obama is my shepherd,
    I shall not work.
    He leadeth me unto Socialism,
    I shall fear no taxes.
    Yea though I foolishly trusteth him,
    he lies unto my face without remorse.


  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Depends on what you want to do with it, and how much the thing costs. As a neat, unique toy, it would be kind of fun. I think that finding 257 roberts brass might be a little iffy, but there is a lot of brass that can be modified to work. 7 & 8 MM mauser, 6x55 swede, 25-06, 270 winchester, 30-06, just about any of that mauser ilk can be sized and trimmed (and maybe reamed) to fit.
    I had a 7.7 Jap that I played around a bit with, but the weird "push-me-pull-you" safety made it impractical for a hunting gun, and I had too many other guns too play with so I sold it and never looked back.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master TCLouis's Avatar
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    Check the barrel first.

    Cleaning the barrel did not seem to be held in high regard and they were used in some pretty damp conditions. Funny the outside metal never seems to have the pitting of the Mauser under the wood.

    If it is a carbine version, ask it if someone carried it off in the dark of night back about 69-71 to a new home. <LOL>


    Dies may be a bit difficult, but supplies including brass should be like any other.

    You can use 257 Roberts or 7X57 brass, but if you use the 7X57 you have to fireform the shoulder. One trip thru the die and it should be ready to go.


    My barrel looks like cast iron Sewer pipe so I do not shoot any cast, but they seem to be shooters.

    Hey if the barrel INSIDE is good, it is only 150 bucks.

    Disassemble and reassemble the ammo with your powder.

    Hornady used to have data for the round in their manual
    If one attempts to do everything, they will likely do nothing

  4. #4
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    runfiverun's Avatar
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    you can size the body in a 7 mauser die and neck size in a 6.5 die.
    i find roberts brass easier to find than 7 or 8 mauser brass.
    airc hornady has data for the cartridge.
    i didn't know that and started with 6.5x55 data.
    if it has the original bbl the jap bbls are not standard rifling and thats why they always look shot out with rounded rifling [it's cause it is a metford type]
    i also have the ugliest rifle ever made to date that was re-lined to 257 roberts and it shot so well with the open sights i had to go put a scope on it.
    don't know why it does so good the shoulders get re-formed to a double radius like a weatherby, the bolt is hard to lift with an empty case in it and i have to cam it open with every shot.
    but it is accurate as all get out even with 86 gr bullets at 2400 fps.
    back to the 6.5 it's fairly accurate also but needs a taller front sight or i need to shoot cast through it.
    it does have a long throat and i need to single shot it. for the best accuracy.
    but thats cool for general cast stuff.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    the more i find out about shootin boolits, the more it contradicts everything i ever learned about shooting jaxketed.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    With the exception of brittle cast-iron Arisaka training rifles designed to shoot blanks (notable by removable tangs), Arisaka's are very stout, very reliable, very safe, very ugly, and have a lock time measurable with a stop watch.

    I have never had a problem ordering 257 Roberts brass, I have FC, Win, Rem, and Hornady headstamps.

    Whether that example is a shooter or an albatross depends on the workmanship of the gunsmith and the condition of the original rifle. It'll never be worth much more than you pay for it, but it looks like all the expensive work is done.

    -HF

  6. #6
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    Well, I have had fun with mine. All the important comments have been made I think, even the one about using 7mm dies to size and then 6.5 X 55 dies to size the neck down. Be very careful not to get into a loose headspace condition if you do that though. Check the empty neck sized brass for a mild crush fit before loading them up with powder and bullets. I have gotten mine to separate a head or two by not being careful enough with this. My old Hornady manual says on the intro page for the 6.5's to use the data interchangeably for 6.5x55 Swede , 6.5X57 Mauser and 6.5X257 Roberts. There was a glut of 6mm Rem brass available to me for a while so most of my brass is that headstamp. It is trimmed to 55 mm because I had that trimmer pilot available. They are worth while to shoot in my opinion. But you will not be able to buy ammo.except there is one seller on gunbroker who sells reformed brass loaded up. Eventually you can probably find dies on ebay for a reasonable price. I bid on several sets over the years and finally traded for them on ammobrasstraders. or buy some fireformed brass and neck size. Where there's a will, there's a way.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    If this Arisaka has been re-chambered for the .257 Roberts round, why would there
    be this statement about such in Wikipedia ?

    "Neither unmodified .257 Roberts ammunition nor the original 6.5x50mm Arisaka
    ammunition are suitable for firing in rechambered Arisaka rifles.
    "

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.257_Roberts

    I don't understand....I guess I am slow witted.

    Or does Wikipedia have its head up its collective behind ?

    Makes no sense if the rifle has been rechambered - is the slug too large in diameter (cal .257 = 6.5278mm)

    What slug diameter have you folks with this rifle got ? - When you slug the barrel ?

    DoctorBill
    Obama is my shepherd,
    I shall not work.
    He leadeth me unto Socialism,
    I shall fear no taxes.
    Yea though I foolishly trusteth him,
    he lies unto my face without remorse.


  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy

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    6.5 mm bore size is normally .264 groove diameter.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    Thus you could safely shoot up .257 Roberts rounds, but they'd shoot
    lousy until you reloaded with a .268 Cast Bullet....?

    This bullet is like the 6.5mm Carcano isn't it ?

    I have the 170 gr LEE "Cruise Missile" mold and make rounds for my Carcano and Swedish Mauser with it.

    Course it would depend on what the rifle bore slugged out at.

    DoctorBill
    Obama is my shepherd,
    I shall not work.
    He leadeth me unto Socialism,
    I shall fear no taxes.
    Yea though I foolishly trusteth him,
    he lies unto my face without remorse.


  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy

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    I wouldn't. If the case neck didn't seal you'd have a lot of gas blowing back into the action. You'd also have lousy accuracy and lots of fouling sending a 257 bullet down a bore where it might not be touching the rifling at all.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    Hells Bells....I offered the guy $100....he will take $125 and include
    a box of 257 Roberts ammo and he says he has a box of Brass (?) he'll
    throw in.

    I am somewhere around 50:50 about buying this rifle....

    Personally, I think Arisaka's are just about THE ugliest rifle I have ever
    laid eyes on.

    BUT...I am intrigued.

    I will leave it up to you folks.

    What should I do ?

    I really need another MilSurp Rifle ! An ugly one with an odd sized round.

    Tell me....

    DoctorBill
    Obama is my shepherd,
    I shall not work.
    He leadeth me unto Socialism,
    I shall fear no taxes.
    Yea though I foolishly trusteth him,
    he lies unto my face without remorse.


  12. #12
    Boolit Master TCLouis's Avatar
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    DocterBill

    It is worthless, but in keeping with the season, buy it for 125 get the brass and ammo and send it to me wrapped with a bow and call it a Christmas present
    If one attempts to do everything, they will likely do nothing

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Mk42gunner's Avatar
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    Doctor Bill,

    The Arisaka rifles are fugly, they even make Mosin-Nagants look good. That said they can be good shooters.

    See if the guy that has it has a set ofdies to throw in the deal, if not the above suggestions of using two die sets will work. A couple of boxes ofbrass should last a long time, with cast bullet loads.

    After WWII, Bishop made stocks for these. It is kind of like putting a ball gown on a pig, but they are out there.

    Robert

  14. #14
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    He said that he was never very much interested in the Arisaka to spend
    much time on it.

    Got interested in a different rifle.

    I don't know....I really don't go for customized MilSurps.

    I want all the ugly wrapped in the original stock...not some Bubba'ed
    atrocity.

    I don't believe it is possible to find an unmodified Arisaka w/o it costing
    an arm and a leg, however.

    Most were messed with like this one.

    I have a friend who bought the 7.7mmx58 (Type 99) variety (sporterized) who
    would like this one (type 38).

    BTW - I LIKE the looks of Mosin-Nagants !

    Best lookers, though, are the Lee Enfields with the long stock clear
    out to the barrel tip.

    History and Character. Stories to tell. The things they have witnessed....!

    If only they could talk. Can you imagine ?

    Well ? Should I or shouldn't I ?

    DoctorBill
    Obama is my shepherd,
    I shall not work.
    He leadeth me unto Socialism,
    I shall fear no taxes.
    Yea though I foolishly trusteth him,
    he lies unto my face without remorse.


  15. #15
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    Arisakas are about the STRONGEST bolt action rifles ever made. Stronger even than the '17 enfields. I had a 6.5 rechambered to 257 Roberts improved and it was a heck of a shooter. Wish I still had it.

  16. #16
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    257 x 6.5

    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    if it has the original bbl the jap bbls are not standard rifling
    and thats why they always look shot out with rounded rifling [it's cause it is a metford type]
    This is good to know. I have seen a few at gunshows
    and Yeah, the bores always look worn.
    after learning this, I can't wait to slug mine.
    I bought this one at a gunshow this fall for $275,
    It has a aftermarket (timney ?) trigger that is awesome.
    It also came with vintage dies that "Wells" made for
    Minnesota shooter's supply...they look new and Nickel plated ?
    also about 40 rounds of brass fired from this rifle...I don't think it's too ugly.












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    I will be offering the GC seater plate for the lyman 45.
    Also I have replacement springs for the Lyman 45 lubesizer, If your's is weak or missing, let me know

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Marine Sgt 2111's Avatar
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    Nice looking rifle! You can also use 6mm Remington brass to make ammo with. Enjoy the dog gone thing....
    Sight alignment, sight picture, squeeeeeze....
    bullseye!

    Dwight

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpmarty View Post
    Arisakas are about the STRONGEST bolt action rifles ever made. Stronger even than the '17 enfields. I had a 6.5 rechambered to 257 Roberts improved and it was a heck of a shooter. Wish I still had it.
    The strengh of Arisaka's is a myth,the actions are no stronger than any other mauser.Blokes like Hatcher did more harm than good IMHO. Pat

  19. #19
    Boolit Master DoctorBill's Avatar
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    I read somewhere (cannot remember where right now) that some
    documentary about safe reloading wanted to show a Carcano exploding
    from overloaded reloads.

    They couldn't get the action to explode no matter how much they packed in the cartridges,
    so they finally loaded C-4 into the receiver and filmed it explode then and lied
    about it in the film to make their illustration.

    I have read over and over that most of what you see and read are lies.

    In any case - mine is bigger than yours ! Top THAT !

    DoctorBill
    Obama is my shepherd,
    I shall not work.
    He leadeth me unto Socialism,
    I shall fear no taxes.
    Yea though I foolishly trusteth him,
    he lies unto my face without remorse.


  20. #20
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    waksupi's Avatar
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    The sweet thing about a barrel that looks like it is shot out for jacketed, that means it is just broke in for cast boolits!
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check