Gas Checked Boolits tearing PP

[dhaid-06]

I'm new to PP. I have a good supply of Lee .309 180 gr. bullets gas checked and sized to .309" on hand that I want to PP for my P-14 rifle in .303 British. I am using 2 wraps of notebook paper and then sizing to .311" (Lee sizer die) About half of them come out with the gas check showing (paper being cut between the gas check and the sizer I am guessing).

In general, what performance difference would you get with the gas check exposed? Any problems to look out for? Should it perform like I regular PP bullet?

Thanks,

[pdawg_shooter]

#1, No gas check needed with paper patching.
#2, Try sizing to .304 before patching and use a strong 16# paper. Let dry completely, lube with whatever you have on hand and size to .312/.313.

[dhaid-06]

I understand that the GC are not needed, but if I have a bunch of bullets on hand that are GCed and sized to .309" as described above, and the paper is tearing, leaving GC exposed as described, will I have any problems?

[pdawg_shooter]

Might leave a patch in the bore. Not good. Suggest you size .304 before wrapping. Should cure problem.

[303Guy]

Might I ask why you need to size to .311? You might be able to get away with .316. .314 would be good for a mint bore. If your rifle has been used a bit with cordite rounds then a bigger size to fit the throat would be in order. This also allows for seating in an unsized case. I sometimes need to custom size my cases to lightly grip the patched boolit. Freshly annealed cases tend to expand the neck too much and need resizing but un-annealed cases are more springy and take up a nice size and stay there. Seating the boolit causes a scaresely measurable (with a micrometer) expansion of the neck.

[dhaid-06]

Might I ask why you need to size to .311? You might be able to get away with .316. .314 would be good for a mint bore. If your rifle has been used a bit with cordite rounds then a bigger size to fit the throat would be in order. This also allows for seating in an unsized case. I sometimes need to custom size my cases to lightly grip the patched boolit. Freshly annealed cases tend to expand the neck too much and need resizing but un-annealed cases are more springy and take up a nice size and stay there. Seating the boolit causes a scaresely measurable (with a micrometer) expansion of the neck.

I only have the .309" size and the .311" sizer. Sounds like I should get a .314".

[Dr. Ronald G. Haycock]

I think our Kiwi friend's advice is spot on-- size to .314 in. at least--we here in the "Senior Dominion" have better results in the venerable .303 in. at the larger diameters, even in the Ross which is usually tighter than the the Smellies and the Pattern 14 s.

cheers
RGH

[dhaid-06]

When we say size to .314" in the PP world are we saying to use a .314" diameter sizer, or try to end up with something at .314". The reason I ask, is that when I size the PP with my .309" sizer, the PP "Springs" back to .311", when I do the same with the .311" sizer, it springs back to .3135". This is all using a bullet sized to .309" with said sizer die.

Thanks,

[longbow]

You will want the final paper patched boolit at groove diameter or slightly larger.

My .303 has a 0.315" throat and 0.314" groove. I am currently shooting 0.315" GG boolits and when I paper patch for it I try to get the final boolit at groove diameter of 0.314".

Of course it all depends on your throat and groove diameters.

Have you slugged the bore and throat? If not that should be the first thing you do. Once you know those dimensions, you have something to work with.

So far I have found that my .303 seems to like the cast boolit at about bore diameter then patched to groove diameter. Several people here are using much larger boolits at around 0.308" then patching and sizing to suit groove diameter.

I tried some 0.309" gas checked boolits patched then sized to 0.314" and found much the same as you have ~ the paper tended to tear at the gas check.

It would probably be better to either pull the checks off if you are going to use what you have or better follow pdawg_shooter's advice and size down the boolit first then patch back up to the diameter you want. That way the gas check gets sized down by the sizer as well instead of paper trying to squish it.

You may have to experiment a bit to get a combination that works.

Longbow

[nanuk]

what size are you getting after patching but before sizing?

[303Guy]

Hi there Dr. Ronald G. Haycock.

dhaid-06, might I suggest just patching those .309's, load em up an' shoot em and see what happens? You might find they'll chamber just fine - those are gas checked so you can happily seat them so's the g/c only protrudes into the case.

Several of my Lee Enfields accept rather large but tapered boolits in the throat. I find the throat to be a rather nifty sizer! Things that can go wrong are the patch slipping and forming a crinkle between the case mouth and the throat leade. With the right alloy, the core should grip the patch and keep it in place as the boolit moves forward into that beautiful tapered throat. If you bore is too good then you will have the situation I have with my near mint rifle. The boolit needs a slight taper into a sharper taper back to a gentler taper (the bore ride section) before the ogive/round nose. The seating shank is parallel. Enter custon sizer die. Sizing gets done first then patching and that's it. I patch dry by the way. Hard on the thumbs after a few but the results are worth it. The patch is also shaped to fit the funny shaped boolit.


Custom mold casting for my 'Pig Gun'. No sizing. Just patch em and shoot em.

Kills turkey's dead!

Patched with shaped patch.


The boolit shape to suite my two-groove No4. after patching. (Never made that mold).



The two-groove has a simple tapered throat like shown in the drawing. It starts out at .318 at the transition and ends at bore diameter of .304. These two grooves are scary accurate with simple cheapo (slightly boat tailed) J-words from Highland - Privvy Partisan. Blasphemy, I know!

Mine has a rust textured bore and it just won't shoot a PP worth a damn. Not beyond 50 yds/m anyway. The rough driving face cuts into the core and the excessice 'sizing' creates base edge 'feathering'.



I have added a rebate to solve that problem. Another trick I have resorted to is a tiny rebate that allows for a 1mm patch overhang.

That's all there is to the patch tail. It works!


This is what happens if I don't use that concept.

Looks wet because it is - it was washed.


The advantages of the shaped patch - really neat fitting and aligned patches. (Dry wrapped).




Having a 'test tube' or 'firing tube' in my shed helps a lot with studying patched boolits.

[303Guy]

The 'near mint' Lee Enfield boolit shape to suite the throat. The drawing shows the development of the patch.

No field trials yet!

[longbow]

My cast boolit is 0.304".

I normally don't size so pick paper thickness to allow the patched boolit to fit my 0.315" throat. If I size it is to 0.314" after patching.

[docone31]

When you size with a check, it leaves a feather on the outer edge.
When I first started patching, I used gas checks and I found this to be true.
The patches would tear.
I fired them to clean the bore prior to firing patched loads that worked

[303Guy]

I have PP'd these as well as 'normal' GC'd boolits. I did not get cutting of the patch.

Straight out the mold.

I wonder what I did? I would have used a custom sizer for sure or nothing at all. Of significans is the direction the patched boolit enters the die. Mine enter nose first and the dies have a gradual taper that ensures the patch does not slip. That would not prevent cutting through on the GC - or does it? It was a while ago and my rememberer refuses to remember! (As it does - or doesn't? ).

Fellows, I would offer to make you all custom sizers and molds but I still haven't met my promises of over a year back. One day I shall.