Rho ???

[Boz330]

You can get the leatherwood scope and dz mounts combo from Baco for 650ish..
I do know of one shooter that mounted his long leatherwood in MVA mounts.

Don,
I looked on the BACO site but couldn't find the DZ mounts, where are they located?

Bob

[Don McDowell]

Bob here's the DZ mounts, they are the same price as getting them directly from DZ arms.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,7804.html
Here's the combinations setup
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,7802.html

DZ says that their unertyl mounts and the malcolm scope works well.
A person might check with Powder Inc also as they sell the leatherwoods.

[texasmac]

I have not used MVA mounts so I can't, with 1st hand experience, comment on backlash, but based on feedback from others, MVA mounts do have some backlash (sometimes referred to as hysterias) that one must learn to deal with. MVA says, “You may notice very slight backlash in the threaded adjustments, but this is necessary for any threads to ensure that they do not bind up during operation. As long as any adjustments made are in the same direction of rotation of the screw, there will be no correction required for the backlash.”

I have used the older Unertl and Fecker mounts and backlash is not a concern due to the spring-loaded construction. I understand the same applies to the spring-loaded design of the Winchester A5 or Lyman 5A mounts. And the new D.Z. Arms rear mount is a Unertl-based design, therefore backlash is nonexistent.

On the issue of holding off for windage corrections, a reticle with windage dots should be a great help. Unfortunately that's not an option on the Leatherwood.

Wayne

[texasmac]

As part of your scope supplier decision process, don't forget about parallax adjustment. Some precision shooters consider parallax adjustment a mandatory feature, others do not. Therefore, if one is considering scope options, understand that the Leatherwood does not offer parallax adjustments. As far as I know, MVA is the only current supplier that offers parallax adjustment. Something to consider and worth getting feedback on prior to making a final decision and laying down several hundred bucks for a scope and mounts.

I have used a Leatherwood, but not over various long-range distances. I have a 10X Fecker scope with parallax adjustment and I do adjust the parallax for various distances. But I don't consider myself an experienced scope shooter.

Regards,
Wayne

[Don McDowell]

Leatherwood says in their literature the scopes are paralax corrected and nitrogen filled.

[texasmac]

Don,

Technically, parallax correction is only accurate for a specific distance. If the scope is used for distances significantly shorter or longer than the "corrected distance", a parallax error will exist. The amount of error may or may not be important. It depends on the various distances the scope is being used for and the ability of the shooter. This also applies to modern scopes. If you purchase a standard modern scope without parallax adjustment, the parallax is typically set for 100 yds (possibly 200 yds), the most common shooting distance for high-power rifles. The parallax adjustment for .22 caliber scopes is typically set at 50 to 75 yds, and is even shorter for pellet gun scopes. Modern high-power precision target scopes usually offer parallax adjustment for a reason, mainly because it is necessary for "precision" shooting over various distances.

I'm not saying that parallax adjustment is absolutely critical for BPCR shooting distances, but many champion shooters believe it is. Therefore it's a factor that should be considered. Based on my knowledge of optics and potential parallax errors, I tend to agree that parallax adjustment is needed, but I doubt I could prove it due to my shooting ability. The suppliers that do not offer parallax adjustment will indicate their scopes are "parallax corrected", implying that parallax is not a concern. And some shooters with parallax adjustable scopes set the parallax adjustment at the midrange of their shooting distances and do not adjust it during a match. In that case they are introducing errors at the shorter and longer distances, but the errors may not be noticed or critical due to their shooting ability.

A couple of years ago I had a discussion on parallax with Randy Oates, the owner of R.H.O. scopes (now out of business). Parallax adjustment was not available on R.H.O scopes. Randy said, “… the telescopes are not adjustable for parallax. However, due to the quite long focal lengths of the lenses used in the telescopes, parallax is not much of an issue. The telescopes are zeroed for parallax at 200 yards, and there will be essentially no parallax errors at distances further than this. At say, 100 yards a small amount of parallax error may be observed, but this will amount to no more than approx 1/8’’ total movement of the crosshairs. At 50 yards observable parallax error will be about ¼’’. In practice, actual effective parallax error will be even less since the relatively small exit pupil diameter of this type of telescope tends to keep the eye well centered in the image (field of view). If a person wants to use one of the telescopes at a very short distance all the time, say 25 or 50 yards, I can adjust the parallax error to zero at this distance, but there will then be some parallax error at longer distances."

Randy does make some good points in support of a parallax corrected nonadjustable scope. Most likely the vast majority of us shooters would not be able to take advantage of a parallax adjustable scope. But if you have the $'s to spend, it may be wise to go with a MVA just in case. But then you eliminate one more excuse for missing that critical target. I need all the excuses I can get.


Wayne

[Boz330]

Bob here's the DZ mounts, they are the same price as getting them directly from DZ arms.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,7804.html
Here's the combinations setup
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,7802.html

DZ says that their unertyl mounts and the malcolm scope works well.
A person might check with Powder Inc also as they sell the leatherwoods.

Thanks Don, I'm not sure how I missed that. Pretty interesting, unfortunately I already have the MVA setup.

Wayne, I have the mil dots on mine and they are a help. For the backlash I set up to make my corrections up on the elevation screw. If I have to go down then I go past the mark I'm looking for and then come up to it, if that makes sense. Doing it that way the graduation marks will be correct. What I don't understand is that on my vernier sights you don't have to do that and they use a threaded screw as well. I don't have an MVA vernier but they use adjustment screws on those. Not a big deal now that I'm use to it but there sure seems to be what I would consider a lot of slop in that screw.

Bob
PS Merry Christmas everyone!

[texasmac]

Bob,

Your MVA scope mount adjustment makes perfect sense and is the same technique that machinist use to eliminate backlash when adjusting the settings on machine tools such as lathes, mills, etc. It's the standard approach to eliminating backlash.

Concerning you vernier sights, not knowning what brand or design you have, could it be that, once you loosen the eyecup to unlock the elevator to make adjustments, gravity and the weight of the eyecup and elevator are sufficient to eliminate the backlash? I'm assuming you are referring to the adjustment slop in the vertical staff screw. The other reason might be that, due to the higher resolution of the "vernier" scale on the staff, it's easier to precisely adjust in either direction.

My AMT vernier rear sight definitely has some slight backlash, but it's never been a problem when adjusting the hatch marks on the vernier to the hatch mark on the main scale. Vernier scales help in reducing the effects of backlash due to the adjustment resolution, but it will always exist to some extent unless a spring-loaded design or some other anti-backlash or backlash compensation technique is used.

Wayne

[Kenny Wasserburger]

You look at any high end Target or tactical scope, They all have Parallex adjustments. Corrected scopes such as Leatherwood have it set at Infinity.

Set the scope up on bags and on a target at 800 yards, and Move your head back and forth you can watch the crosshairs move, Adjust the Parallex till crosshairs are sharp, no more shifting.

Too each his own, But there is a darn good reason for Parallex adjustments. You get what you pay for in my opinion. As a side note, have never seen a Leatherwood in the Winners Circle at Raton Nationals, in scope-class, in 100 rod slug gun matches at Cody, or In Regional Creemoor Matches such as Phoenix or Missoula.

Adjusting Parallex at 200 yards also will Yield this:

KW
The Lunger

[Don McDowell]

Interesting read on parallax
http://www.6mmbr.com/parallax.html
http://yarchive.net/gun/scope/parallax.html