M die for pistol ?

[44man]

I may be totally uninformed, but I used cast bullets in 30-06 for practice when I used to shoot highpower matches. I must have shot well over 7000 rounds. I have tried both flaring the case mouth and the M-die. I always got the best results with the M-die. Since then always use them when loading any cast bullets. I found that the bullet is centered in the neck much better with the M-die than using the flaring type dies. Just my experience which is worth what I am charging for it.

You are loading for a rifle. Please do not confuse it with revolvers.

[Bass Ackward]

I read all of this and I wonder what I have been missing. I don't own an M-die and never have. Coarse I have a good shamfering tool. Ooops, that gives away more about how I size than anything else.

If she won't go in, put the bevel on the bullet not the brass.

That aught to get some smoke rollin out from under somebody's hat.

[theperfessor]

44Man -

Do I understand correctly that your problem with M dies, specifically Lyman, is that the smaller diameter section is too large for proper neck tension? I can see that could be a real problem. But I gotta tell you that being able to sit a bullet straight in the case really makes bullet seating easier and faster at least with my loading press (a single stage RCBS) and loading procedures.

Never owned any Lyman dies and I make my own plugs so I can get any size I need. But unless I misunderstand how the Lyman stuff works I bet a little sandpaper and a way to spin the plug would work too.

[FWest]

After reviewing all the posts I can say, for my needs the M dies should aid in reloading my newly cast boolits. I have a few auto handguns and a 9MM carbine I'm casting/reloading for. I will look into the members tips on what they use and modify to achive clean shooting and accurate ammo.

Thanks to all who posted and I did not intend to start any disagreements. I should have posted on opening what I was intending on casting and reloading for.

Frank

[theperfessor]

Frank, this is a forum where polite disagreement is acceptable and encouraged.

[462]

There was some disagreement, for sure, but I don't think there were any ruffled feathers.

The M die is but one tool we casters and reloaders use. Some like Fords, some like Chevys.

Have fun and happy shooting.

[44man]

44Man -

Do I understand correctly that your problem with M dies, specifically Lyman, is that the smaller diameter section is too large for proper neck tension? I can see that could be a real problem. But I gotta tell you that being able to sit a bullet straight in the case really makes bullet seating easier and faster at least with my loading press (a single stage RCBS) and loading procedures.

Never owned any Lyman dies and I make my own plugs so I can get any size I need. But unless I misunderstand how the Lyman stuff works I bet a little sandpaper and a way to spin the plug would work too.

Yes, I lose neck tension and that does not work in a revolver but to also find the neck too large in the 45-70 PBRC to even hold a boolit was a surprise. I need almost no tension, just enough to keep a boolit from pulling if I have to extract a loaded round.
You are better off making your own for the fit you want.
Now the Hornady expander just enters the brass about 3/8" and that leaves boolits tight at that point but boolits go into unexpanded brass below that point. My revolver boolits bulge the brass and I can see the base and GG's through the brass. Takes a hard and tough boolit.
Some say that was made for jacketed---well--.
I fully expect as good or better accuracy from cast and since cast has LUBE on them, tighter is better. A soft grease ball in loose brass is going back to the 1800's.
I like soft lube but it must be sticky and Felix lube does it all. I don't believe in a slippery lube at all or one that burns in the barrel.
Boolit alignment in straight wall brass is not much of a problem with good dies.
In a rifle with a bottle neck case it is NOT the seat die, it is the size die that sizes too much and the expander will pull the neck crooked.
Watch over expanding with an extra expander too, it can bend the shoulder.
Brass is the weak link and where accuracy is found or lost. Too many worry about the boolit and destroy the brass.
Think brass, think brass and adjust everything around it, don't fiddle with the brass!

[mpmarty]

Using an "M" type die on a revolver cartridge sounds to me like a disaster waiting to happen. My 45/70 rounds are loaded with an "M" die and it produces an obvious "step" in the case where the base of the boolit rests before it is seated to its final depth. This produces a nice easy to seat boolit and lends itself to more consistent ammo. I don't worry about boolits pulling out of cases but do worry about them seating deeper and raising pressures.

[theperfessor]

Would you care to explain the reasoning behind your statement?

[handyman25]

Thanks to all for your posts.This dissicussion has been very interesting and got me to do some thinking. 44 Man your post gives me hope that I can get my Ruger blackhawks to shoot a reasonable group.

[stainless1911]

My Lee powder through expander die was swaging down the .40S&W rounds and leading the barrel terribly. Some here were of great assistance in helping me figure out the source of the problem. (thank you). deltaenterprizes made a new expander for me, and it works perfectly! I didn't need it to0 be hollow, as I powder in a separate step. I also had it made to go to a depth slightly further in the case than the bullet would seat. I got the micrometer and checked it carefully, its exactly as I ordered it. Cost was very reasonable as well.