Splitting cases in 12ga BP Shotgun

[Dragoon 45]

I purchased 3 boxes of MagTech 12ga brass cases about 6 months ago. Most of the cases have been reloaded 6-7 times. My load is 72 grns GOEX FFg, Federal LPP, 1 1/8 oz #8 shot with wads to get the shot column the right height. After the overshot wad goes in place I lighty roll crimp the case and then use hot glue to seal and hold everything in place. I droptube the powder using a 24" droptube. the overpowder wad is seated using a wooden dowel rod to give light compression to the powder. I do not try to compress the fiber wads that go between the over powder wad and the shot. These loads are only used in my Stoeger Coachgun so the cases are not resized but used as fire formed.

I have recently had to discard eight of this cases because of splitting of either the case mouth or case sides. I can understand the occasional case mouth splitting due to the roll crimps, but the splits in the case sides have me somewhat puzzled. Has anyone else had problems with this brand of shotgun brass? A friend suggested I switch to Fg powder as he thought the FFg load might be too hot. I contacted MagTech and they did not have any answers. MagTech said my load was almost the exact equivelent of a 3 dram load and couldn't see where there was a problem. Any suggestions?

Thank You.

[August]

As brass is worked, though repeated expansion and contraction (i.e. firing) the crystal structure changes. The crystals get bigger. Also, black powder gets very hot and tempers the brass each time you fire it -- crystal structure changes making the brass more brittle.

Your only answer is to anneal the cases to return the brass to its original, softer state.

Once the brass is work hardened or tempered it will split because it is no longer soft and springy.

I suppose you could drop them immediately (at the firing line) into water while shooting to get some amount of annealing.

Of course MagTech didn't tell you about annealing because they want to sell you more, new cases.

But, rest assured, annealing is the last thing they do on their production line before boxing the cases and sending them to youl

If you have a propane torch and a pan full of water, you can anneal them too.

[camerl2009]

what crimping tool are you using

if its just a rool crimp head its ment for plastic shells(big no no on brass

if its the rcbs die then your good to go for brass

you dont need to crimp the shells some white glue on the edge of the over shot card will hold it there

[montana_charlie]

Also, black powder gets very hot and tempers the brass each time you fire it -- crystal structure changes making the brass more brittle.

I suppose you could drop them immediately (at the firing line) into water while shooting to get some amount of annealing.

Heating the metal is what anneals brass.
The first statement (above) is wrong because firing does not get the brass hot enough to anneal it...regardless of the powder used.

The second statement is wrong because it is heating...not cooling...that anneals brass.

Annealing might cure your problem, but it sounds like you may need to get fairly far down in the body of the case.

Standing cases in a pan of water is not necessary to the annealing process. Air cooling has the same effect as 'quenching'.
But, you may want to stand the cases in water 3/4 to 1 inch deep...just to protect the head from unwanted softening as you get down below the actual mouth.

Don't let the metal get anywhere close to a 'red' color. Even 'brown' is hotter than you want. Blue is the color to look for.

CM

[cajun shooter]

Mag tech Brass is not made to with stand a lot of firings. I had two cases split after the second load. The load I use is the 3 dram load. MC is correct about the annealing of the cases to extend the life of the cases. If loading for certain guns you do have to use a slight crimp or the case mouth will cause a jam on loading. I have this with the 1887 lever and Mag Tech hulls.

[John Boy]

After the overshot wad goes in place I lightly roll crimp the case and then use hot glue to seal and hold everything in place.

A roll crimp is not necessary from brass hulls. Just seal the overshot card - load em and shoot them

With MagTech brass that is not annealed and not crimped, I'm over 10 reloads for 40 hulls and not one split case shooting them out of a SxS. Even with a magazine feed, like an '87, the hulls will chamber with no crimping

[cajun shooter]

Your gun and mine are different John Boy, That's all I can say. With a slight crimp with the RCBS Die I have no problems. without the slight crimp I have had stopage in SASS matches. Maybe in a shooting for fun that would not be a problem but when trying to shoot all them bad guys first and the smoke covering where they are at.

[Dragoon 45]

Thanks Everyone for the answers.

I use the RCBS dies made just for brass hulls to do the roll crimp. Even though I have a RCBS resizing die, I do not use it as I leave the cases fire formed. If I do not put a roll crimp on the hulls I have problems feeding them into the SxS. I do not want to have the shotgun's chambers polished as I have seen too many shotguns ruined by too much polishing. I can understand annealing the hulls for preventing splitting in the case mouth area, but the other cases split starting about 1/4 of the way up from the head and continued up to about 2/3 of the length. How do I anneal that close to the cartridge head? I am concerned about softening the case head if I try to anneal the brass that far down. As these cases are close to $1 a piece, I don't want to ruin anymore of them. On a side note these cases immediately go into a 1 gal jug filled with soapy water after firing, as does any other cartridge using BP I fire.

I tried BP loads in plastic hulls and found them to be more trouble than they were worth. Plastic residue in the barrel was an extreme pain to remove.

[Don McDowell]

Maybe try a bit less crimp? use a bullet lube on the top wad instead of the hot glue to hold it in place?

[georgewxxx]

Did you read the article about those cases in the June issue of the Handloader?
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...266partial.pdf

[powderburnerr]

I think the length wise splits are from the drawing process ,if they missed getting annealed in one of the draws it would make weak spots in the brass , These shells are drawn and are pretty thin compared to RMCs cases which are turned , , your chambers might be a little oversized also helping your condition , but it is probably just the lot of brass ,,, you got lucky ,, anealing might help but if the brass has stress lines it will still crack along them . probably too late to see if they all came from the same box,
I see verticle cracks a lot in reformed brass , if you want lifetime brass order from RMC and order it so it will fit the shotgun, then you will only have to hurt one time ,,, well maybe twice if you loose one

[Springfield]

By a spiral tornado cleaning brush and the melted plastic will push right out after soaking a bit with hot soapy water. . Been doing it that way for 5 years, it works. Brass shells always seem to stick in the chamber with my guns, the plastic fall right out.

[cajun shooter]

Dragoon 45, I have been loading plastic wads in my BP 12 ga hulls for almost three years now. Buy your self some Windex W/Vinegar NOT AMMONIA . After firing spray the inside of your barrel or barrels until it runs out the end. The brush that Springfield spoke of is good to use. On your first pass go kinda slow and you will see what looks to be a shed snakeskin exit your bore. After this I make another pass or two and then use my bore snake. Bore will be bright and shiney. Run a patch with Ballistol if you wish. With the STS and other plastic hulls you need to purchase the short wads made for the English guns with the 2 1/2 chambers for your load to work. I load 65-70 grs of 2F and 1 or 1 1/8 depending on the chore. You don't have to be concerned with wad pressure with the BP loads. Just seat them firm over the powder. Those hard KD's will not stay up with that load.

[Grapeshot]

This is nothing new. All the comments about work hardening of the brass through repeated firings are right on the money. I had some unfired Remington "Ducks Unlimited" shells awile back. A friend of mine gave them to me and they stayed in a box for close to ten years. When I did shoot them, one split from the primer, across the head/rim and up the side to the middle of the case.

I sent the case and a letter to Remington and they sent me a hat and a letter stating that the hulls had been made in brazil and that over tome drawn brass tends to become brittle/hard and that is why that one split.

I have had early unfired Winchester hulls of unknown age split along the hull when fired as well.

You might want to anneal those cases when you get the chance.

[Dragoon 45]

Did you read the article about those cases in the June issue of the Handloader?
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...266partial.pdf

I read that issue when it came out. I don't remember seeing anything in about case wall separation, but will go back and reread it.

[dogrunner]

Well I use Magtec too and relative to the crimp issue I resorted to using my six point starter on my 650 to obtain more secure over shot card retention. It's not necessary to go overboard with that crimp start, just enough to 'grab' the card. I have not experienced a split or lost case yet.............Started doing that years ago with some ancient UMC brass & STILL use 'em.

Don't have any 11 ga. components, just a large batch of old Alcan heavy fiber and hard .12 wads of various sizes. ( yeah, I know, buy 11 ga......for the amount I load it's not worth the money) The fiber compresses enough to retain the powder charge & I build the balance of the cartridge from there. Do use duco or whatever epoxy's handy for the overshot card tho.

[Seth Hawkins]

I suffered a split in one of mine. Annealing takes care of the problem.