Corbins - Richard vs Dave and compatability

[hardcase54]

techlava, not meaning to be a smart-ss, but don't you have a contradiction of terms" low cost high quality". I've made die sets in .224 for my Corbin press and for a RCBS RS press and don't believe you will find quality dies for a low cost.

WDH

[techlava]

I have bought injection molds twenty years ago made with EDM at 1/3 or less cost in Far East that produced millions of plastic parts of the highest quality. Tools and dies got much cheaper when the Chinese got into the act. The Chinese just got paid less and they take a lower profit, they make it up in volume. Whither you like it or not, thats part of the reason why half the stuff in the stores are made in China, including high quality luxury goods. There are very capable workers in China that gets paid $100-$300/month. The injection molds that make the trash cans or I-phones are highest quality costs much less then in US. I did not say it is fair. I am just saying the skilled labor costs a lot less. over there. The quality control is a matter of management policy. I am just stating a fact, however unpalatable is for some of us. Remember when "made in Japan" was a slur in quality. I am not trying to sell the dies; my dies are old Hempstead and CH4D. I just know that if I order a few hundred Corbin look alike dies I can get it for about 20-30% the cost at comparable quality. Thinks how much your dies can cost if you get paid at $2/hr. All this is the consequences of free trade, supply and demand, and globalization.

[seppos]

If somebody would be interested to arrange a group buy for couple of common caliber swaging die sets.. lets say .224 and .30 with the price rate that techlava was talking about.. I would be more than interested to participate..

S

[Pavogrande]

Not me! while I think it too late in the "buy American, the job you save may be your own" debate i am not willing to support any more chinese or other low wage dictatorships.
I would think tooling and present day labor costs and taxes would not be encouraaging for a start-up company to make a good profit at building swage dies. CNC tooling is not cheap and non-CNC is too costly time wise. My ha-penny

[Spanners]

I think a couple of you might be missing the point

Its got nothign to do with the cost , its about the reasoning given in Corbins writings to justify buying X product and making Y money from it, and the fact he doesnt apply the same logic to another die maker to get rid of backlogs.

I'm quite happy to pay the asking prices - (except the Hydro Press - I'll build my own - hydro conversion of a H press)
Its the backlogs that are ******** along with the 'if we employ more people then prices will go up'
His writings are all backed around $$ figures - something that he doesnt seem to be interested in via more output and less backlog = more customers and money?~!

CNC is not an option as you'll find it very hard to hold tolerances of under 1 thou - VERY hard

[techlava]

You can easily hold tolerance at less the .001" with EDM CNC. Thats how the $2000 to $4000 dollar custom BR dies are made with carbide dies.

[bohica2xo]

Well, good luck with that 20 cent on the dollar chink tooling, especially asking for .0001 tolerances. A plastic injection mould is far from a set of bullet dies. The third world can make two plastic parts match each other flawlessly. The cell phone case may be .015 bigger that the original print, but who cares? The inside may have a finish like 20 miles of bad road - but again it does not matter.

Spanners, I admire your fortitude to wade through all of that text. There must be 6 or 8 corbin sites, they all give me a headache - and open enough new windows to make me scream. That is before I read the content. His business model needs some fine tuning for sure.

Of course the other corbin has a different model. He has a long backlog, but sells the same tools on e-bay for twice the price. I would not be happy if I had waited a year for dies & found them for sale on e-bay.

Good luck with your quest.

B.

[Radio Flyer]

We all may be missing a point, the beginner and the hobbies guys and the possibility of outsourced products.

Where do the Chinese get the dies to make rifle and pistol bullets to load and sell to the US? (or did) how about the Russians?

How about limited options and low price to get new guys in the game...

Try and convince a new guy to wait 18 months for a set of dies... Currently a buddy has an order in for a point forming die from Dave at Corbin and it is over 16 months now, with at least several more to go...

A set of mighty mite dies and a cast iron press would be a great starter, now is the time to promote swaging, I think it could return, I think the need/demand is there.

.45, .400, .355, .357 (or not), .308 7s, and .224 6s, at a good price, could work.

On the issue of quality and where it comes from... you would be shocked how much of even (US made) items are Chinese. Your new Ford and GM car, I think it would shock people if they understood how much of that is outsourced, and yes it is far too late for this to be a political issue at this point.

At this point, I would be happy to see any company pitch in, and I would be happier if it did not take 24 months and had stuff in stock with prices to tempt the new guy...

[Spanners]

Try and convince a new guy to wait 18 months for a set of dies... .

EXACTLY my point (one of them anyway lol)

I'm goign to get hold off a Corbin H press and build a retrofit kit to turn it into a Hydro - anyone got a Hydro for a couple of pics???

I dont however have the time (or patience) to be involved with dies as I'm away workign 6 months of the year

Any tool maker or compentent machinest could make a set of dies, however its a 'what you draw is what you get' result.