I picked up some bar solder locally and had questions about the makeup.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4018063eb2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9d1df4c7f3.jpg
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I picked up some bar solder locally and had questions about the makeup.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4018063eb2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9d1df4c7f3.jpg
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That would be 50/50 solder. 50% tin, 50% lead.
Don
All I've seen were also 50/50.
The big market for them was to auto body shops before 'bondo' came along in the late 1950's and made it obsolete.
Some antique car guys will pay a decent amout for a few to hang on the wall.
For heavily damaged cars--- the term 'Lead sled' was born.
Ok tyvm, I got about 4lbs of it for about $5.20
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There... fixed it for you! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Remiel
Yes, you did very well for yourself. In tin value alone it’s at least four times that. Congratulations on a good find. If some collector wants those sticks, make sure you get the cost of 2 lb of tin and a bit more. All of it I have like that came in years ago, but I haven’t thought of the car restorers’ market.
Froggie
Lol, the place I got it from has a drum full of solder wire too, got about 40lbs of lead for 1.30 a pound too,Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Frog
Don't know any collectors but I will use the full bars last just in case.
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i have seen 60/40 and 70/30. it will be clearly marked
nice snag
Ah yes I remember it well leading fenders, quarter panels, and any other place on a car that would get a dent! As a certified Rolls Royce technician we weren’t aloud to use any plastic auto body filler, had to use lead. And it was available in other percentages. I did use 60/40 on Rolls Royce‘S . Interestingly Bondo was actually a brand name, it was one of the first plastic autobody fillers that came out. End it was horrible to use! Like trying to finish concrete! The last time I use lead on anything was back in the late 70s early 80s. I’ve been out of the business since the late 80s when I tore my back up! Oh well didn’t mean to hijack a thread just a little bit of useless trivia.
Very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy42
3M invented the stuff which then was the heavy weight variety.
It was basically a fiberglass resin product and talc--- basically ground up dirt.
They didn't sell enough in the late 50's to be worth while, so they sold the rights for it to Dynatron Bondo Corp.
They brought it out under the 'Bondo' name.
Late 60's or so, 3M made glass micro beads. They sold them to Dynatron- and probably still do.
That became the filler for light weight bondo.
It brought the weight down from 12 pounds for a almost full gallon can to 7.
Other companies make versions of it now, but Dynatron Bondo's brand is still the benchmark.
Back in my auto paint store days- we sold 4-500 (4 gallon) cases of it a year.
Oh-- the trick to working it is to do it all before it gets real hard,
You want to be done and prime over it within 3-4 hours after its mixed.
After a couple days, bring a sandwich and something to drink because you'll be there a while.
Body shops have since gone from producing 'Lead sleds',,,,, to 'Bondo buggies'.
I have 4 bars of it, didn't know what it was because it doesn't have a mark on it that I can find. I thought it was a solder.
Body solder also has lower tin versions in the 5 and 10 percent. One had to use high tin alloy to "tin" the surface to be filled, then could use lower tin as filler. Needed an alloy that you could keep in a putty like stage to push out and fill the dent. Worked it with a torch and wood pushers called paddles wiped in bees wax to keep them sliding across the lead.
Used it on motorcycles back in the 80's and done right the vibrations would not ever shake the patch out and it didn't soak up moisture swell and crack either. Hit with 80 grit to finish shape and skim some thin filler to fill in the scratches. I think the pros might have used finer sanding and forming files but I'm saying what we did not what was right way. Still have a 66 Triumph with a tank dent repaired in the mid-80's that hasn't failed.
Those bars were also common in radiator repair. I have some of those Hewett Detroit thin bars I checked what they are. Look for a number on that thin bar. Might be a single number the tin percentage or a pair of numbers with a slash for tin and lead E.G 20 or 38/62 I think I see a 40 on the thin bar.
The larger stuff without numbers I have found to be mostly 10% tin Lowest I recall seeing for highly formed "nicer" bar has been 30% tin up to 60/40 but really high tin has a very smooth surface. Casts really really well when they make the bars. It was also the "good stuff" so it would be generally marked.
No matter how you slice it you got a heck of a deal. Anytime you can get solder for scrap lead prices it is time to break that "mad money" out of the back of the wallet and snatch it up.
The unmarked bars are very flexable, doesn't take much to bend them, the Hewett bar says sp-40x on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerDat
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Always watch those foundry markings cast into the bars!!!!! I bought 10 bars that look JUST like that 2 years ago and they were 100% PURE TIN! Marked as such. $1../pound. Can't beat that with a stick.
banger
How do I tell without an x-ray gun, i have one bar is a partial that was melted,Quote:
Originally Posted by bangerjim
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Remiel,Quote:
Originally Posted by Remiel
That indicates a high lead content such as found with 50/50 solder. Treat it as such when creating your alloys. No way pure tin bars are going to bend easily like that.
Don
They look as if they were meant to be held and fed into torch heated work. Nice find.
You tell by reading the numbers and the info CAST IN the bar. Most, if not ALL, foundries cast their bars with molds that have specific alloy info in the bottoms, so the foundry cast bar has cast-in letters/numbers that CANNOT be confused or questioned. Period. No need for any x-rays there!Quote:
Originally Posted by Remiel
Newer wave solder bars have the alloy mix stamped on the ends with ink.
This ID can be done generally with FULL UNMELTED foundry bars. If some of the info is melted off, as is sounds like you have, you are up a creek for firm ID. Pay for an x-ray shoot if you want, but doing that for just a small partial bar is kind of a waste of your $$.
banger
The big bars are unmarked,
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I stay away from unmarked bars. No way to know what you've got. As previously noted most bars have the alloy cast into them. Two years ago I bought 37 bars of 50/50 for $60. Now that was a steal.
50/50, 50/50, 50/50, 50/50, oh and did I say 50/50.
Don
If you find factory cast bars that have no content marking, squeeze a known bar and the unknown bar together with a ball bearing between them. The softer (less tin content) solder bar will have a larger indent. There is no reason to pass up an unmarked bar that might be solder if you can buy it for the price of lead.
When I get unmarked solder or older rolls of solder that I can't read the label on I melt it all together, flux and stir it well, pour it into ingots and send a sample off for analysis. The last batch that I did ended up 51% tin and 49% lead. I leave any bar solder that is marked in its original form. I have bars of 60-40, 50-50 and 40-60.
Lightman I think has a good plan there. I have a few bars of solder picked out of the lead bin and find that the molded surface has been hammered flat. That prevents any possible ID as to source or type of solder. I have always suspected it left the work site in a boot or otherwise concealed. The comparison hardness test at least helps sort it out from other marked items. For wire solder, pour a small ingot and press test with a known sample.
Where do you send it and how large of a sample do they need?Quote:
Originally Posted by lightman
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Member BNE is our great testing resource, but he's taking a bit of a break at the moment. That'll just give you more time to gather solder.
What he requests is a BB sized test sample and a pound of lead (I think he prefers pure). Your only other cost is postage. He'll flatten the sample, scrape a clean spot and XRF it. You'll get an email with the result.
Rotometals will do it, but the cost is one or two orders of magnitude higher.
It's pretty safe to assume if you get several random unmarked bars of solder & blend them the resulting ingots will be about 50/50 or at least close enough for our needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by lightman
I take old roll solder and over hang the edge of my work bench equal distances about an inch and match it with known solder. I then hang fishing weights from them, the softer solder like 30/70 takes less weight to bend while 60/40 takes more & lead free solder takes the most. I can tell a lead free solder like 95/5. I get a lot of roll solder 95/5 has been the standard for 30 years here, 50/50 was standard before that silver bearing solder is rare. STERLING Lead-Free Solder is newer with 95%-96% tin/4-5% copper and trace of selenium. The core solders are the ones that can really run wild anywhere from 30/70 to 60/40 except the new lead free electrical solders which are mostly tin with trace amounts of copper & silver.
Another way to figure out roll solder by weight is to compare a measured length (1") of solder by weight in grains.
Kevin beat me to it but we have a member here, BNE, that has access to testing equipment. And like Kevin said, he needs a little sample between BB and Pea size to test. He ask for a pound of lead in trade per test. Thats a great deal for the members here! He's a great guy to work with and the forum is lucky to have him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Remiel
A recent post says he has temporarily quit doing this. You can contact him by PM.
This is true but I usually send BNE more than one sample to test so it only cost me another pound of lead to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyFirefighter357
The last batch of solder that I melted was a full 5 gallon bucket of mixed rolls of solder, some of them old enough to be on metal spools, and was about half full of water. Talk about a nasty mess!