Alloy choices trying to get my head around this

Most of my local hunting is short range heavy cover for hogs . Local deer are tiny & I rarely take one . I'm using SS rifles in 357 Max & 44 mag . All bullets will be gaschecked . Mr. Gibson here has suggested 16 to 1 up to 1800fps . Not sure if he's talking impact or muzzle velocity . Would work for the 44 , but the Max calls for harder I believe due to it's velocity . His choice of binary lead - tin alloy without any antimony makes sense to me .
For the 357 Max I believe that water drop or HT might be needed , but freely admit this could be wrong . Bullets I'm considering are LBT 180 wfngc , 200 wfngc & LY 358627 . MV of 1800 +/- looks quite possible & if accuracy is there maybe more . I want pass through & ability to take out shoulders . What would your choice be in this instance ?
As I stated above for the 44 mag I think 16 to 1 gaschecked will suffice . Bullets I'm considering are LBT wfn or lfn from 260 to 300grs . Deer hunters like the LY 429640HP which I have doubts on being suitable for my purpose . Again I need some guidance . Playing with QL I'm seeing that my choices will be within the 1800fps limit for 16 to 1 .
In my 41 mag Henry BB I use the LBT 240 LFNGC water dropped which works & never worried about it .
BTW twist rates are 1 in 16 for the Max , 1 in 18.75 for the 41 & 1 in 20 for the 44 .

the 1800 fps of the 357 should be fine for expanding 16-1. in 44 I tested 20-1 300gr wfn at 1350 to simulate 1500mv and it half way expanded, so softer would be better. or just hard, lots would say 44 wfn works fine wide and flat. but I powder coat and only gas check rifle calibers, so I cant say what will work as far as accuracy and leading since I don't lube and gascheck

boatbum101,
I too prefer to have an exit wound for game such as deer or hogs. I want them to bleed out as quickly as possible while leaving a good blood trail. I would choose the 200 grain bullet for the Max to help insure an exit hole. The 16-1 alloy, air-cooled, checked, and lubed with a good lube should be up to the task.

Please note, a 16-1 alloy WILL NOT harden by water-dropping or oven heat treatment. You need antimony and/or arsenic in the mix to achieve that. If you build a balanced load- slow powder, proper sizing, good lube, crimp-on gascheck, etc., you will have what you are looking for.

Hardball alloy is fine for hogs. Expansion not needed. Breaking bones without shattering is( if you're saving meat) needed. I tried something like Larry recommended. One hole into the shoulder, no exit, 185gr 30/30 short range. Not what I want. Same load into the gut - after 5 min the larger exit started leaking green stuff. Hog already dead from 40sw to the skull - hit with 9mm in the spine - still looking at me. Gut shot hogs are buzzard food.

Centershot good point . Forgot that about needing antimony / arsenic to harden . I believe with the velocity of the Max penetration with these bullets either the 180 or 200 WFN will not be a problem . Popper true that with my choices expansion is a moot point . Gutshot hogs are worthless just like a big / huge boar . I always try for a neck shot if possible , if not wreck both shoulders . High shoulder you'll get the spine too . Probably overthinking this but there's different ways to good results . I have been using water dropped COWW in the 41 mag , get 100% pass through & have never had one come apart yet .

The WFN GC'ed bullet cast of 16-1 alloy will give all the penetration needed or wanted. No, expansion is not "needed" but it kills quicker. That may be of benefit in thick stuff in Florida as it was in thick stuff where I hunt simply because the quicker they die the less distance they can travel. Don't depend on "DRT" with any bullet of any cartridge.

The 1800 fps +/- is muzzle velocity for GC'd 16-1 alloyed cast bullets. If you go over that muzzle velocity with the 357 Max then you'll probably want a "harder alloy". That means a ternary alloy. I use COWWs +2% tin then mixed 50/50 with pure lead. That gives an alloy of about 97/1.5/1.5. I'd try them AC'd (10 days at least before use) first cleaning the bore every 8 rounds or so to maintain best accuracy. Or, WQ/HT them if the AC'd ones don't hold up. If you don't want expansion then just use the COWW m+ 2% tin straight and WQ/HT them.

Go with the neck or head shot on hogs. 200gr. Max should be awesome. I use a 230 WFN in my 41's, 50WW-50Pure+2%tin air dropped, all neck shots all DRT.

My 357 Max alloy for my 180 grain Larsen wfp was- 96% lead, .024 tin, and .016 antimony. I missed Larry's balanced alloy by almost 1% extra tin. In my defense, I was modifying a 30-1 alloy I used in my 45 Colt, but I used 'stickies', which have a little antimony in them. I am willing to clean after softer hunting alloys, wouldn't be shooting that many of them. My RCBS 180 silhouettes are closer to Lyman #2. I'd love to get my grubby paws on some of your 200 grain wfn, think that would be perfect in the Max! Tom

I'm using a gas checked NOE 360-180 wfn in my 357 max contender cast from 96-2-2 . Took a nice buck with it last season . Didn't shot it over my chronograph but it was loaded with 21gr w296 from a 14 inch barrel . Anything over that load and accuracy went away .

I've been to Florida. I don't think there is anything you can do that would ever keep a bullet from passing clean through your deer. I personally find pressure to be more of a limiting factor than velocity. That said I run 20:1 alloy in 327 federal with great accuracy, and that has similar pressures to 357 maximum. You might be surprised how well 16:! will work.

16/1 is my go to alloy been used for along time by a whole lot of people
and recommended by some for the applications I use such as 44 mag pistol
and 358 win rifle I have also used it in my 45/70 gov. use it either lubed or pc'd

I’m bummed to say I never saw a deer this past season to try my 16:1 pewter and pure mix that has a BH of 7.5.

Im Using the alloy in a Lyman devastator with a muzzle velocity around 1600 FPS out of my Ruger 77/44. Recoils like a BB gun.

Here’s a slug I recover covered from a dirt backstop at 25 yards.

https://i.imgur.com/peQgVov.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tUnpACV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vlGHMGi.jpg

You can see how the tin held together and kept it flowing. I believe it weighed around 180 or 185 grains if I remember and started at 265.

The only other deer I shot was the same bullet with a BH a 15.4 and all it did was sail right through the 3 deer I harvested with no expansion except for one that I hit Bone causing bone fragments to blow up like a grenade went off inside of it. You’ll have 50,000 people telling you here you need no expansion. I’m the opposite and agree with Larry. I want my boolit to open up, cause trauma and put my deer down as quick as possible. Hopefully this alloy is the ticket once I get a chance to try it out. I’m sure it’s gonna put a nice bleeder hole in my deer once I finally connect for a quick recovery. You can see the diameter was bigger than .743” as I didn’t get my calipers all the way to the edge.


When I first started casting after learning here a couple years ago I got all obsessed with alloys and test shooting in water jugs. I tested the 16 to 1 and I only had approximately three jugs of penetration and it look like a penny when I was done.

Weighed 136 grains.

https://i.imgur.com/voYsBiZ.jpg

I then kept hardening my ally and came up with an 80:20 accoww and pure mix adding 15 percent pewter and tested it in water...

https://i.imgur.com/5HMRIuF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jJ8f3cF.jpg

It made the nicest water mushroom I’ve ever seen!!! The problem is water is way too hard of test medium than deer but I had to go out and find out for myself. That was the boolit I referred to that sailed right through three deer. Two ran over 100 yards with double long shots before expiring with no blood and the third one dropped in its tracks because I blew up ribs on the way in and it shattered all over and took out lungs and I blew half the heart out. The deer still kicked around for a good a minute but didn’t go anywhere. This boolit was tested at 1875 FPS. I’m sure it would work probably great on hogs because it would hold together but it’s way too hard for deer imo. I’m my water test i caught the first one in a 4’ long tote full of water. The second one went through two totes and then kept going. Probably a good bullet to shoot through a rhino.

I did test 50 to 50 mix air cooled clip on wheel weights in pure lead with 2% pewter around 1750 ft./s in water. The bullet looked almost the same condition and weight is the 16 to 1 alloy. The reason I went 16 to 1 is it groups a lot better in my rifle. I use smokes clear pc and a hornady GC.

My 2 concerns with 16 to 1 were mainly for use in the 357 Max . In the 44 mag I believe it will work quite well . As I stated in my original post my use will be hogs not deer . Expansion is great as long as I get the penetration needed . Anyway the Max is new to me so finding a load is first & then adjust my alloy to get results desired . This has been a learning opportunity for me & y'all have given me some great insight . Now it's my job to get out there & gain some firsthand experience . Thank you Gentlemen .