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I cant identify this gun... just bought it... looks like a 38 6.5x50 based on bore size .. no imperiell marking nor does it look like anythi g has been scratched off any help would be great! Attachment 190734Attachment 190735Attachment 190736Attachment 190737
That's a Type-I rifle, actually an Italian Carcano made in Italy for Japan.
Yep a mix of East and west to help the Japanese in the war effort
I have the same rifle. Mine was made by Beretta. Most of them when to the Jap navy. Really a accurate rifle one inch groups at 50 yards with mine. Not as common as other Jap rifle
Also called a Japtalian. They did not have gain twist barrels like the Carcano.
I've got one too, but it was sporterized by bubba. Unless I can dig up a stock, I'll probably sporterize it proper and rebarrel it to....something??
Dave Emary from Hornady wrote a neat article on the Carcano, while it doesn't cover the Type I per say it still a good read: http://personal.stevens.edu/~glibera...ano/emary.html
"The Carcano rifle is a well made rifle that is by no means weak or poorly manufactured. They are reliable and strong rifles that are fun to shoot and offer a tremendous variety of types and markings for the collector. I will admit that they are a rather utilitarian rifle as compared to some others. However, they are probably one of the most efficient, cost effective, user friendly battle rifles produced in their era. The rifle, ammunition combination properly loaded is capable of accuracy that will rival the most accurate of the Mauser chamberings."
I have one also. I like the double stack magazine , don't need the enbloc clip to make it a repeater. And yes, its accurate.
Yes, the Mauser type magazine would be great compared to the Mannlicher type clip.
Thanks so.much for.your help guysQuote:
Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager
.. to clarify... is it a carcano action then and what it chambered in? Still the 6.5 x 50? Also is it possible to know what year roughly? Was it qas the russo japanese war? I hear its a pretty good cartridge thanks for allthe help i can put tha to rest!
It is 90% sure to be a 6.5 Jap. (6.5x50mm) They were made for the Japanese by Italy in WW II, total production said to be 60,000. 49.7 in. overall, 8.97 lbs. empty, internal box magazine loaded with 5 round stripper clip, utilizes Japanese bayonet, ordered from Italy in 1937, superseded by the Type 99 7.7mm in 1941 and used mostly as training rifles thereafter. If they did see combat it was in China. The one shown in your photos appears to be in exceptionally nice condition, not often encountered like that.
I saw one of the japitalians years ago (though it looked 100 percent like a Type 38 including the palm safety) at a Nashville gun show pristine inside and out (YES I still regret not buying it) what drew me to it, was the "fake" stock.
Had to be fake since it was walnut, then I was amazed when I saw the tell tale line in the two piece Arisaka stock.
Would not mind one of the Chinese rebores to 7.62X39 that were for sale in the 80s.
TCLouis,
Here's a Bubba'd Carcano I fixed up and rebarreled in 7.62x39 complete with a home made scope base that clears the e-clip. Practical, no, but its fun non the less.
http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psoipb42nu.jpg
That's a great looking sporter, map! And the stool needs to be in MY shop.....Quote:
Originally Posted by map55b
Best, Thomas.
That's very nice, map55b-- and you say it still works with a Carcano clip?
I was wondering that also.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager
Spot on correct. It is a Type I. The backstory is interesting. The Jap Army and Navy did not coordinate and were bitter rivals. The Army had control of the arsenals and would not supply rifles to the Navy. Because of an agreement, Japan had to buy such needed military supplies from an Axis power, in this case Italy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager
The Italians produced these rifles with stocks and bottom metal like the Arisaka. However the Italian rifles did have tighter chambers and better barrels, making the more accurate than the Jap produced products. The Type Is were shipped on freighters and transferred at sea to Jap cargo subs for the final run to Japan.
Most of the Type Is were never issued as the Jap officers, being Japs considered all non-Jap made weapons inferior to Jap made weapons. So most of the Type Is, were left in storage at the docks, where they were found the US when we landed. That is the reason why so many of them are in great shape.
I bought a Bubbed Type I from Glen Fryxell a couple of years ago and did some work on it. It is a very good rifle for what it is.
Probably not a fake. The Type Is did us a hardwood stock with the dovetail joint like the Arisaka. The finish on the wood was of dark brown color and unless you took a good look at the way the grain ran, it could well be mistaken for walnut.Quote:
Originally Posted by TCLouis
Scottybronco- the 6.5x50 Arisaka is a fine cartridge. It's Contender doppelgänger -the 6.5 JDJ- was considered a fine big game round. If the bore is as good as the exterior you've probably got a fine shooter. Let us know.
Best, Thomas.
TbG
6.5X50 is a great little cartridge in the rifles IF one is willing to ignore an oversized chamber, at least every in every one I have seen. I am assuming they did that to overcome any dirty ammo issues in combat, because otherwise the machining is first rate.
Trust me the 6.5 JDJ in a Contender will outperform the 6.5X50 in the same platform. Someplace floating around on the internet there is a story about th6.5X50 in the Contender written by "Rich Jake" (RIP).
If one had one of the Type 38s with the oversized chambers, the 6.5X257 or 6.5X51 would be good candidates to correct the chamber.
In a old gun reloading magazine late 1960s it tell about undersize ammo not oversize chamber. This guy had special dies made and used 35 rem brass to fit the chamber instead of reloadable 6.5 Jap.Quote:
Originally Posted by TCLouis
TClouis- that makes sense because the 38 I had swelled the Norma brass. I ran a .250 Savage reamer in and that problem went away and brass easier to come by. I did n't know a large chamber was the norm except on Lee Enfields so I've learned something. I wonder if the OP's Japtalian has an oversize chamber?
Best, Thomas.
Here's a shade tree mechanics tip for the oversize 6.5 Arisaka chambers. Split a strip of electricions or masking tape length wise and using new cases wrap enough of it around the case head, just above the extractor groove, that it's barely a slip fit in the chamber. This will center the back of the case in the oversize chamber. The front of the case will be fairly centered by the bullet in the leade. Upon firing these cases will expand to fill the chamber evenly rather than with a belly on one side. Peel the tape off after firing and simply neck size going forward. Sounds a bit goofy but I can tell you from experience that it works. RD
TbG
What did you use for dies to load that chambering after the 250 reamer treatment.
260will clean the chamber issues up and then it should perform just like a 260.
6.5X257 does a very good job and like most others kills stuff as one would expect.
Even with a dark barrel the Type 38s seem to shoot cast pretty well, low enough pressure to avoid swelling the brass to.
Hello Der Gebirgsijager and TX by God: Yes it still uses the e-clip. I had to make a small shim to help feeding and it sometimes stovepipes the last round. But if I can't kill my tin can with the first 5 then I don't deserve to be shooting. The issues with the last round is due to the follower not pushing at the right point of the cartridge as the 6.5 and 7.35s are longer than the 7.62x39. I might fit it one of these days. I plan to build another and adapt it to use a single stack AK mag. I also plan to move the bolt handle to the rear and fill the bridge to make scope mounting simpler and make a side mount safety for it. Why, just because.
I shortened an old 6.5 x55 die set so I could neck size the 26-250(as I called it). I wasn't into casting for rifles back then. When the itch hit again I had a local gunsmith fit a used ER Shaw 8x57 barrel to it and a neighbor still has it. But that's another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by TCLouis
I own a two T38s and a Type I Carcano and from my experience, the T38s have looser chambers and bigger bores than the Type I. I have had to separate my brass between the three rifles as the brass fired in the T38 still in 6.5x50 (I converted the other T38 to 260Rem to clean up its huge chamber) and just neck-sized will not fit the chamber of the Type I. Both of my T38 rifles prefer cast boolits sized at .268" (I use a 7mm 150gr Lyman loverin-style mold sized down although I may experiment with LEE's new 130gr 270 caliber mold soon) while the Type I can provide me an accurate grouping with a standard 6.5mm Lyman 140gr Loverin mold sized at .266".
Other than my Type I currently having an issue with ejecting the last cartridge from the magazine while trying to cycle it, (I may have to replace my magazine spring as it has the right floorplate and it doesn't look like the magazine lips have been altered) I really like this rifle.
And after stripping the stock from the old paint that was applied at one time, I found a very light wood. I believe that the stock wood is birch as I don't feel its walnut like some folks claim.
And it can be accurate. 50 yards with the 140gr Loverin.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/atta...2&d=1441582618