What is your opinion of the best weight for a cast gc bullet for the 30 30 cartridge for hunting deer? The bullet to be cast from ww.
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What is your opinion of the best weight for a cast gc bullet for the 30 30 cartridge for hunting deer? The bullet to be cast from ww.
173 grain lyman
IMHO...a guy is usually best off going to a heavier boolit. The reason I feel this way is because we're working with cast boolits, we are a little limited on how fast we can push our boolits and still get good penetration and accuracy with a boolit soft enough to do the job. I personally don't care for HPs for hunting and do prefer large meplat boolits. For alloy I used water dropped 50/50 alloy (WW/pure) and a 170ish weight boolit. YMMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Edd
I use the 173 lyman and the 180 grain lyman round nose. I prefer the bore rider 180 grainer of the two, but they both work well.
I use 311291 Boolits in my 1947 win 30 30 they choot great taken many deer with that Boolit also use that mold in my rem 788 308 best mold for all around use
Depends on the size of the deer and the type of "hunting". Most of my deer hunting using the 30-30 with cast bullets has be "still" type hunting or spot and stalk on black tail, white tail and mule deer in the 150 - 250 lb range (on the hoof). For that I've found the 170 - 190 gr FPs cast soft for reliable expansion and slightly HP'd give the best results. I'm particularly fond of the 311041 for this though the 311291 or the RCBS 30-180-FN or any other 170 - 190 gr similar cast bullet would work as well. I've found the 311041 to be very compatable with most other .30 cal rifles for hunting deer also.
However, having "hunted" the smaller deer in Texas and along the southern east coast and the west coast I find a 150 gr FP cast bullet cast softer for expansion and slightly HP'd at 1700 - 2000 fps would be very good also. While stand "hunting" in Texas from a stand with ranges mostly going to be under 125 yards I found that with my '06 and even the 35 rem with 200 gr cast I was "over gunned" in my opinion. I would have been very comfortable with the 160 RD at 1850 fps over 2400 out of my 30-30.
Larry Gibson
this type of question brings on a lot of thought
there are the tried and true methods that bring in the meat, like most of the above, but then too, it doesn't take much to kill a deer.
many smaller/lighter boolits do it just fine in other rifles, so I don't think you can say that something will NOT work, rather, some just seem to work more reliably than others.
As long as you can get an accurate load, with proper alloy, there is no reason why anything from 110gr to 250gr cannot work.
You need to define YOUR parameters, and then work back from there. Accuracy, velocity/weight, alloy
a 110gr 30Carbine boolit, PaperPatched, and cruising along near 2800fps, if you can get it to shoot 1.5MOA is going to bring home the venison, as will a heavy weight, BUT within the parameters that you can get it shooting.
To Start, I'd listen to guys like Larry Gibson et al, who have developed loads that just seem to work well, with their boolit choice.
once you get that going, and get comfortable with it, you can start 'sperimentin' cause that is really where the fun is.
i use a 150 rcbs fp gas check in my 30-30's and in my wifes 0-6.
i have other molds but this one has the flat point that i like and it is accurate.
i do use another boolit in my argies, and 7.7 jap and such,but it is made from copper tubing and 50-50 air cooled.
i push them both just over 2200 fps in the 30-30 and argie.
and about 1900 ish in the 0-6.
runfiverun I am coming around to your point of view. With jacketed I liked lighter and faster for deer. The 150 grain jacket was my 30 30 load for deer but after reading here for a while I think that the 170 or 175 grain gc seems like the way to go using cast. I have been hunting for more years than I care to admit but always with jacketed so far. I am just starting to reload using cast in my 30 30 Contender barrel.
the weight thing is because velocity is limited.
the thinking is well my accuracy window is 1850-1950 anyways so a heavier boolit is going to give me more energy on target.
which it will at further distances.
unfortunately at 200 yds the boolit has dropped 15 inches making hit's iffy.
at 30-75 yds i don't think that the dirt will know the difference how much energy is hitting it.
i go for accuracy,and nose design.[fit of the rifle]
many times all i get is part of a deer to shoot at, or a narrow window it's moving through.
and i want the accuracy confidence and a quick second shot if needed.
or it is 400 yds away and a cast boolit isn't gonna do me much good from my 30-30 at that distance.
for the contenders with whatever it is they do to the front of the chamber you'll want a heavier boolit to bridge the gap there and get the boolit started straight.
the one i use for the 31 cals is a 170 grs spire point
Just keep it between 100grains and 200 grains, and make sure you have a flat nose on it, and you got meat on the table.
My perspective is a bit different than runfiverun's. This is not to say his perspective is wrong, just that mine is different. I have used many different 30-30s over the years, mostly M94s but I've used a M54 30-30 and a few Savage 310s along the way. I'll even admit to a Marlin 336 or two if you promiss not to tell the Marlin guys over on the Lever Forum (they seem to think it is a Marlin Forum[smilie=l:).
I currently have three 30-30s, two Winchesters and a Contender Carbine. The 2 Winchesters have 12" twists and the Contender an 11" twist. This allows my accuracy window for hunting cast bullet loads to be in the 2100 - 2250 fps range. With both the M94 Carbine and the Contender pushing the 177 gr 311041 HP at 2100 fps (easy to safely do with several powders, especially LeveRevolution) zeroed 4" high at 100 yards puts it on at about 170 yards and 5" low at 200 yards. Thus I don't have to hold "off fur", just hold a little high past 170 yards or top of shoulders at 200 yards.
I consider 200 yards as the practical max range for this load. At 200 yards the velocity is down to 1540 fps or so with around 900 ft-lbs of energy. That is sufficient for good expansion with the alloy I use.
With the 24" barreled 12" twist M94 Winchester I can push my hunting 311041HPs to 2250 fps with LeveRevolution powder at a very reasonable psi. This extends the range potential to 250 yards with the same velocity/ft-lb figures.
Lighter weight cast bullets begin to lose even hunting accuracy before their velocity potential is realised. The WFN bullets especially do the same. If one hunts at short range distances with the 30-30 where 100 yards would be a long shot then any of the cast bullets discussed at 1900 fps will do nicely. If I was stand hunting in Texas for a nice 130 - 150 lb buck for instance I would be quite happy with the GB C314-150-FN (very similar to RD designs) which has a WFN at 1950 fps. The shots there are generally 125 yards or less.
However, if that possible 200 yard shot is in the cards or the deer are the bigger at 200+ lbs then the heavier 311041 type bullet has the advantage, at short or long range. Long range when using a softer expanding cast bullet for a well sighted (apurture or scope) 30-30 of carbine barrel length I consider 150 - 200 yards as long range. With a well sighted 24"+ barreled 30-30 and the right cast bullet load long range can be 250 yards. With cast bullets and a scope sighted 30-30 you are every bit as effective and have the same hunting range limitations as most any other scope sighted .30 cal rifle with cast bullets.
Larry Gibson
The 2 long time favorites of many cast bullet shooters have been the Lyman #311291 RN, it runs about 170-173 grs, & the other is the #31041, weighs about the same but "acts" bigger because of the flat nose. Run this last one as soft as you can & as fast as you can & still get accuracy & its a wonderful deer bullet in the 30/30, 300 Savage & 308.
I shot quite a number of Texas turkeys with the #311291 using RL7 powder, you could eat the bullet hole but it knocked the feathers off the backside. I just whacked them in the low breast & it was a done turkey.
Dick
i see dick pointed at the 041.
he know's i have the mold. and i do use it in some rifles and for some things [like the 300 yd gongs and steel bowling pins]
i have a use for the 150fn and the old 94 i know it works in the brambles and tangles where it goes.
it feeds everytime and snicks home with nose engraving but comes right out of the chamber when i need it to, it also pours extremely nice and falls from the mold when i open it,and the gas checks just slip on before being semi sized.
it might be why i like it so much,, it's just so easy to deal with.
and it is the top boolit in the savage 0-6 as far as accuracy goes and just happens to be capable of hunting too.
the 041 is better [slightly] in the 1917 so it goes in there.
not my choice, it is the choice of the rifles.
i just had to do the casting/shooting to find out.
Good morning
I am very fond of the RCBS 180 FNGC. Shoots excellent in every caliber .30 rifle I have ever owned.
At 30/30 velocity I would also use the 50-50 mix. At 1800 fps you do not need to waterdrop but you can. If you are going faster fire a few and see what they do. Waterdrop if needed.
Mike in Peru
as long as you get the accuracy you are after
go heavier than lighter
I feel very strongly about those two factors....accuracy and bullet weight have to go hand in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by white eagle
If a given bullet is a smidgen lighter but groups a lot better than that preferred heavy weight you had your eye on, then I do believe that trading off in the favor of accuracy is the way to go.
At the same we can't be too silly with our trading-off. When I say 'smidgen' I'm talking 10 maybe 15 grains.
There has got to be happy medium somewhere and I'm sure we all understand that.
My old Savage Mdl. 24V (30-30 / 20ga.) has never been a 1" gun no matter what I shoot in it, or how fast or how slow I push it.
Even brand new, out of the box, it was very disappointing and it ain't got no better over the years.
Still yet, I can expect about 3 / 3.5" @100, no matter what weight cast bullet I choose, or who made the mold....consequentially it is always the heavy weight for this old gun.
That plus shots have always been less than, or around, 100yds has made this old gun a favorite 30-30, even with all its faults. A very forgiving old gun.
I've killed a lot of deer over the years with this 30-30 and cast boolits. When stationed in Alabama years ago, the limit on deer was "not to exceed one (1) antlered animal per day"!!
Lucky guys that live there have tons of deer, they're thicker than fleas on a dog, albeit a mite small. I still envy those boys that live there.
If you can recognize that old scope, you'll know about how long I've been shooting this thing. Both were brand new, on the same day back in 1968.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...IM000485-1.jpg
Russ
Any boolit over 130 gr that your rifle likes and you enjoy shooting enough to shoot all the time for practice and fun.
I used the 311291 on a couple of muleys when I was a kid. It worked fine, but wasn't much of a test: I hunted like I would bowhunting, and the ranges were within 50 yards on both of them.