Boat tail boolits does the boat tail matter

I just bought a Savage Sporter 23b in 25-20wcf and I'm looking for a 70-75gr mold. I found one at arsenal molds but it's either gas check (don't want to do gas checks) or boat tail. This is going to be a low speed affair so I'm not worried about ballistics. I can see the boat tail as an advantage when putting boolits in cases; does the boat tail contribute to leading at all?
Mainly bought the rifle to fill a perceived hole in the battery between 22lr and 223. It'll mainly be used for targets and critters between coons and coyotes. Should I go with an 87rnfp or a 60? Thoughts?
Shooting standard wheel weight I plan to just lube with Bens Red; as I do for pistol boolits. I'm not opposed, and will probably experiment with, pure lead and powder coat or Hitech.

Thanks in advance.

Note: I was on the forum for a few years but dropped off because it seemed like maybe it was an addiction. I forgot all my old login info so I just put up a new registry.

The boat tail is just to keep its speed up a little better, and not slow down as quickly.

For what you're doing, I don't think it would matter enough to be a concern.
The only way I could see a BT Leading more is because it doesn't have a gas check.
If you're powder coating, I don't think that would matter either.

Well, welcome back Larry. I'll bring your double registry to the attention of management and they might consolidate the two memberships for you. It's a bit above my technical expertise.

To get to your question: I've never encountered boat tail boolits in .25-20. This is not a high velocity champion that could benefit from the boat tail's streamlining. I'd just go with more conventional flat based boolits lubed with any of several great lubes available including SPG. As far as I know, boat tails don't lead the bore any worse that the flat base. To my way of thinking, gas checks are always desirable.

DG

Boat tail usually only shows an advantage at distance. A boat tail may let gas cutting happen with cast bullets, which could lead to leading ?? Flat base or gas check may be better ? Try with powder coating and see what happens ??

I suspect that the boat tail will not be a leading issue any more than any other plain based bullet. If you look back at old shooting magazines and reloading books you would find that people have regularly used gas check designs without the gas check without any difference compared to other plain based bullets. A gas check design without the gas check is not all that different form a boat tail. I have several gas check molds that UI shoot without the gas check when I don't need lots of velocity.

Instead of the 257420 BT, I think you'd be better served by the regular 257420. With the boat tail you'll have no option for gas checks later if you choose that route. At the lower velocities that you're planning to shoot the BT will probably not have much to offer as far as improved ballistics. There is the possibility that the angle on the tail may contribute to gas cutting, which could cause barrel leading, but that's something that no one could know until after they try it. Because you need to add a slight flair to the mouth of a case when reloading with cast bullets there's no advantage in the boat tail as far as reloading is concerned. The base of the bullet contributes more to the accuracy of the projectile than it's other features, so a flat base is usually aerodynamically superior. You can shoot a bullet with a gas check shank either with, or without a gas check. If you plan on powder coating, and expect to keep velocities reasonable, you can easily use the gas check bullet without checks. Later, if you want to step up the velocity, gas checks could be an option. You'll choose the one you want, but of the two I'd recommend the 257420 for the reasons above.

I was in your position recently and considered that bullet also. I don't see any advantage in using a boat tail bullet at the distance you will be shooting a 25-20. I went with the MP 258-640 bullet https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...mold-gc-or-pb/ that can be ordered with a plain base or gas check design. It looks like it is a shooter. They are on sale now also. Just be aware my mold drops bullets right at or just a tad smaller than .258. In my rifle it shoots well with no leading using tumble lubed wheel weight.

Your 23B has a 14" twist. Thus, given a "low speed affair" the longer and/or heavier bullets are not going stabilize, especially past 50 yards. In my own 23B 25-20 I've found the Lyman (or copy of) 257420 to be my cast bullet of choice. It does very well non-GC'd at subsonic velocities. It is an excellent performer GC'd up through 1800 fps.

First, boat tails make little difference inside 300yd. They can be a disadvantage as the boat tail leaving the bore presents more surfaces that must be precise. Most 100 and 200yd bench rest shooters use flat base bullets for that reason. Also why GC shank bullets are usually more accurate when used with GC's.

Second, if you go to powder coating, the powder will flow a bit and collect at the base. If using a boat tail it means the tapered section will not be even, which will destroy accuracy.

When I first read the thread title I assumed it was talking about bevel based boolits. Didn't even know there were boat tailed cast bullets until I read this thread.

Did a little digging, found this reference:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...-Short-Version

You may want to contact him to see how they worked for him in an air rifle. May even be able to get a few boolits from him to try.

I'd think it's worth the proverbial shot.

Generally speaking, boat tails are only an advantage past 300 meters. If you’re looking for ease of seating bullets, a slight bevel base may work for you.
FWIW,
Steve

Thanks for all of the help. I think I'll go with the GC version of the mp mold. Looks like I should be able to shoot it without GCs if I want and getting the hp pins and a 3 cavity die for the sale price is just too good a deal to pass up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hick

I suspect that the boat tail will not be a leading issue any more than any other plain based bullet. If you look back at old shooting magazines and reloading books you would find that people have regularly used gas check designs without the gas check without any difference compared to other plain based bullets. A gas check design without the gas check is not all that different form a boat tail. I have several gas check molds that UI shoot without the gas check when I don't need lots of velocity.

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In the past there were a few pistol calibers that used heeled bullets; they had a shank smaller than the larger part of the bullet, so that it could be seated flush with the outside of the case. Consider the 22 rimfire.

Wayne

I just ordered RCBS dies. They're on sale as well. They were a lot cheaper than the catalogs or ebay even.
Question: has anyone used an expander from a 6.5 cartridge to flare the case a bit to start cast boolits? Just a thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snake river marksman

I just ordered RCBS dies. They're on sale as well. They were a lot cheaper than the catalogs or ebay even.
Question: has anyone used an expander from a 6.5 cartridge to flare the case a bit to start cast boolits? Just a thought.

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You can flare a case with anything. A pair of needle nose pliers stuck in the case and twisted will do the job. For my money, the Lee universal flaring die is the best and easiest way, other than spending the money on an "M" die.

Wayne

As everyone has said, boat tails only start to give an advantage at +300 yards. However, they do make seating the boolit in the case easier. Consider the NOE system for case flaring. I’ve heard that the best bench rest shooters use plain base boolits.

In high velocity centerfires with jacketed bullets, boattails do provide some advantage at longer range - they decelerate less with the reduced vacuum at the base of the bullet. Boattails provide the most benefit at transonic speeds, which is way out there with a high velocity jacketed bullet. They have little or no benefit below the speed of sound.

That being said, if the OP is shooting just over the speed of sound, the boattail will help just as much in that transonic range as it does on a high velocity jacketed bullet. The bullet will shoot a little flatter. Is it significant enough to be worth the other potential issues is another matter.

If the bullet is spending most of its useful flight at transonic speeds, the boattail will provide some benefit. Enough to matter........????

The flat base or GC would be a better choice for the 25-20 cast I sot a 30-20 for a long time and the flat base cast did well out to 200 yards, using 4227. I also shot a 25-20 wildcat for a bit, in a custom revolver, I built on a Dan Wesson SM frame.

I shoot GC projectiles without the gc in my .30/222 martini ,I dip lube them in Emmerts,the lube fills the GC section,Breach seated with 9.5 gns of Unique best group to date is Less than 1” @ 100 yds.No leading to date,Alloy 20/1. Cheers Mal in au.